Question About Loading Bulk 35mm Film

.

A
.

  • 1
  • 0
  • 133
Promethea Moth

D
Promethea Moth

  • 1
  • 0
  • 109
On The Nest

D
On The Nest

  • 3
  • 1
  • 148
Reception area - Spain

A
Reception area - Spain

  • 3
  • 3
  • 251

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
189,616
Messages
2,644,214
Members
97,308
Latest member
crockodile
Recent bookmarks
0

chuckroast

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 2, 2023
Messages
952
Location
All Over The Place
Format
Multi Format
I normally shoot MF & LF but have some occasion to use 35mm. I prefer shorter rolls to throwing out half-used commercially packaged film, so I decided to use more bulk loaded film

I just did some negatives from a brand new 100' roll of Fomapan 200 and they have some horizontal stripes about 6mm from top of frame visible in the exposures with a lot of blank sky. They look like marks made by the manufacturing equipment, because they are so consistently and evenly spaced. There is also some sort of marking on some of the film edges outside the frame.

Other packaged films, including factory Fomapan 200-24 do not have this taken in the same camera (a Leica M2).

I loaded another dozen exposures from the bulk loader, shot and developed them and ... they seem to not have the problem.

So, it could be the cassette or the film itself. Is it a best practice to discard the first few feet of a new bulk roll - i.e., Is it common to see defects in the first few feet from the process of rolling up the bulk and packaging it?
 

Don_ih

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
5,178
Location
Ontario
Format
35mm RF
Is it a best practice to discard the first few feet of a new bulk roll - i.e., Is it common to see defects in the first few feet from the process of rolling up the bulk and packaging it?

No, not at all. It's not common to find defects in bulk film at all.

You should show your horizontal stripes. If they are thin and parallel to the sprocket-edge of the film, there may be some bit of grit in your cassettte velvet that is scratching the film. Or is it the other kind of stripe - an exposed stripe?
 

lamerko

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2022
Messages
377
Location
Bulgaria
Format
Multi Format
One of the reasons I stopped using a bulk loader is the problems I had with scratching the length of the film. I started manually winding film on cassettes - no more problems :smile:
 

Bill Burk

Subscriber
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
8,793
Format
4x5 Format
There is a light trap that you have to “open” once the door is shut (Watson for example). The cassettes you use need to be clean. I like to vacuum them if they are “used” but if I am not sure I’d crack open another Kodak Snap-Cap box or two. The going price for those is high, so I prefer a few re-uses. But scratches can come through the loader, the felt, the camera back etc.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
46,602
Location
Delta, BC, Canada
Format
Multi Format
This is said with tongue firmly in cheek, and with some reference to some of your earlier posts!
I would highly recommend against not listening to something like J.S. Bach's "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor".
Something like his "Air on the G String" from his Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major, BWV 1068 is a better choice.
Somewhat less flippantly, it is important to pay close attention to the process of loading the cassettes as well as how the bulk loader is functioning.
Most of that soon becomes quite automatic, once you are familiar with it.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
48,289
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
I always used the light trap. I never has scratched film problems nor light leak problems. I enjoyed bulk loading film for many years. I also loaded the 100' rolls in a large changing bag in a dark room, not a darkroom, for safety.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
46,602
Location
Delta, BC, Canada
Format
Multi Format

Ivo Stunga

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
672
Location
Latvia
Format
35mm
I load my bulk film by hand, inserting and removing my film via top of the can, avoiding anything that can cause uniform scratching on my side.
Unfortunately, it's not rare to encounter scratches in Foma film - my experience at least.

Have dealt with that in store bulk-loaded Fomapan 200, my own rolled R 100 too. Store does decent job with other films, so it's up to the softness of Foma and their manufacturing process I guess.
 
OP
OP

chuckroast

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 2, 2023
Messages
952
Location
All Over The Place
Format
Multi Format
No, not at all. It's not common to find defects in bulk film at all.

You should show your horizontal stripes. If they are thin and parallel to the sprocket-edge of the film, there may be some bit of grit in your cassettte velvet that is scratching the film. Or is it the other kind of stripe - an exposed stripe?

When I get a moment I will scan and post here.

These do not appear to be scratches. They are parallel to the film edge and might indicate a light light at that location on that cassette. I did shoot another dozen images from the same bulk batch without seeing the problem and the camera is known to work with factory loaded film, so it certainly seems to be implicating the cassette.
 
OP
OP

chuckroast

Subscriber
Joined
Jun 2, 2023
Messages
952
Location
All Over The Place
Format
Multi Format
This is said with tongue firmly in cheek, and with some reference to some of your earlier posts!
I would highly recommend against not listening to something like J.S. Bach's "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor".
Something like his "Air on the G String" from his Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major, BWV 1068 is a better choice.
Somewhat less flippantly, it is important to pay close attention to the process of loading the cassettes as well as how the bulk loader is functioning.
Most of that soon becomes quite automatic, once you are familiar with it.
How do you feel about Das Reingold as background music? It's very ... energizing ...
 

Don_ih

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
5,178
Location
Ontario
Format
35mm RF
might indicate a light light

A light leak will rarely be uniform and consistent (assuming your example is). A line of consistent density parallel to the film edge really shouldn't be a light leak from a cassette.
 

brancaleone

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2021
Messages
21
Location
Italy
Format
Multi Format
Hi,
I tried FOMA 200 in either 135 and 120 format and often had issues due to emulsion's flaws. Unfortunately, it is a quite common finding with FOMA's films, especially the 200ISO which seems to be much prone to theese problems.
I have a bulk roll of FOMA 200 still in one loader (Computrol), that has not felts, and it has a long longitudinal thin scratch that shows in the prints. See the picture below, right across the shoulder of Beatrice. Also with 120 format I had problems with tiny spots that also appear in the prints.... they can be seen enlarging the pics below
Therefore, I believe that the issue raised by the OP might be related to the inconsitent quality between batches of film. If not already suggested, to exlude problems with the bulk loader, you might load a cartridge by hand a check the resulsts.
Ciao!





 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
46,602
Location
Delta, BC, Canada
Format
Multi Format
How do you feel about Das Reingold as background music? It's very ... energizing ...

Anything that features the God of battle is probably not quite "Zen" enough for the task at hand 😉
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
46,602
Location
Delta, BC, Canada
Format
Multi Format
Thank you @Don_ih
Every time I watch the print I swear at FOMA! Maybe time has come for me to learn spotting and retouching.... :smile:

Speaking of Zen - it is always a good time to pick up those skills.
 

Ivo Stunga

Member
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
672
Location
Latvia
Format
35mm
Or choose a better product that's just a tad more expensive, but a ton more reliable - like Kentmere.

I'm kind of sad to say negative stuff about Foma quality, but I'm not going to pretend otherwise. Price sometimes does reflect quality and I hope Foma can solve these problems that exist for far too long.
 

Nitroplait

Subscriber
Joined
Jul 13, 2020
Messages
698
Location
Europe (EU)
Format
Multi Format
Maybe time has come for me to learn spotting and retouching.... :smile:

Highly recommended - it will save you many instances of frustration and reprinting just because you notice a dust speck or three on an otherwise perfect print the next day.
It quickly becomes a second nature an is often both faster and cheaper than reprinting.
 

koraks

Moderator
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
12,059
Location
Europe
Format
Multi Format
Maybe time has come for me to learn spotting and retouching....

As @Nitroplait says, it's very useful. But sadly, the kind of line/stripe you've got in that marvelous portrait is very difficult to remove. Low-density marks (such as dust etc) are far easier to patch up. Getting rid of a high-density line is far more difficult. One approach is to apply farmer's reducer or (better) highly dilute rehalogenating bleach (ferricyanide +bromide) with a small brush, followed by fixing. If you take the bleaching too far, you can at least redevelop the spot and try again after a thorough wash. With farmer's reducer, there's no going back and you'd have to add dye if you take it too far.
 

Don_ih

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
5,178
Location
Ontario
Format
35mm RF
And the fact is, sometimes damage that would take a massive amount of patience and skill to fix using spotting techniques would take a second to do digitally, so that may be the best option in those cases. Spotting something as regular as a line would be very difficult to do and get an unnoticeable result.
 

brancaleone

Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2021
Messages
21
Location
Italy
Format
Multi Format
Thank you all for your advice.
I will for sure try out spotting since I recently started printing on fiber base paper and, given the efforts, I agree that is better retouching then reprinting. A little different with RC paper where I often reprinted in case of dust spots..
I also understand that it will be very difficult to intervene on a dark scratch as in the case of the picture of my daughter. Anyway, there are plenty of other my prints that need spotting... :smile:
@Don_ih , yes for sure digitally must be easy to fix that scratch. I literally suck at photoshop, I will have to ask somene to do that for me!
 

Don_ih

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
5,178
Location
Ontario
Format
35mm RF
digitally must be easy to fix that scratch
I'd like to say it took a few seconds but, when you zoom in on the photo, there are 4 or 5 scratch lines through it - above the very prominent one. But:

1707227266511.png


I use ACDSee, though, not Photoshop (or I use Affinity photo).
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom