Quest for yellow for gum prints

[R Shaffer]

I would be curious as to what some of you are using for your yellow pigment for gum. I started with Lemon Yellow, for both tri-color and regular (?) gum prints. It just seems to scream YELLOW. I read somewhere not too long ago about Quinacridone Gold as a good warmer alternative. So I have tried it out and looks much better in the emulsion, but after processing it seems to loose a lot of it's warmth.

Any suggestions? What's your favorite yellow?

 

[sly]

Lemon Yellow is what I've used for bright sunny yellow, Yellow Ochre has worked well for me for a warmer yellow.

 

[R Shaffer]

I really really like the yellow ochre in your gum print in the gallery. I think that is much closer to what I'm looking for.

Thanks

 

[Colin Graham]

I really like PY150, nickle azo yellow. It comes out of the tube like a yellow ochre, but clears to a warmish transparent yellow that's not too green or too orange. Blends well with quinacridone violet and 'thalo red shade, but I've only tried the M Graham version. Looks nice over cyanotypes as well.

 

[R Shaffer]

I really like PY150, nickle azo yellow. It comes out of the tube like a yellow ochre, but clears to a warmish transparent yellow that's not too green or too orange. Blends well with quinacridone violet and 'thalo red shade, but I've only tried the M Graham version. Looks nice over cyanotypes as well.

I just looked up this paint on handprint and my Quinacridone Gold is its cousin and has the PY150 along with quinacridone violet, and quinacridone maroon.

In reading the description, I'm beginning to think that perhaps I am using too little pigment ( or exposure ) in my gum mix to get the warmth it is capable of. I'm usually around .6 to .8g per 10ml gum.

Ok, this gives me a whole new line of thought to consider. Maybe, hmmmmm

Thanks Colin.

 

[donbga]

I would be curious as to what some of you are using for your yellow pigment for gum. I started with Lemon Yellow, for both tri-color and regular (?) gum prints. It just seems to scream YELLOW. I read somewhere not too long ago about Quinacridone Gold as a good warmer alternative. So I have tried it out and looks much better in the emulsion, but after processing it seems to loose a lot of it's warmth.

Any suggestions? What's your favorite yellow?

My favorite yellow is New Gamboge by M. Graham. It's no longer made though and I'm about to run out so I'm looking for a replacement. Gamboge is too orange.

Guess I'll try Nickle AZO Yellow and M. Graham's AZO Yellow which I have in stock.

 

[R Shaffer]

My favorite yellow is New Gamboge by M. Graham. It's no longer made though and I'm about to run out so I'm looking for a replacement. Gamboge is too orange.

Guess I'll try Nickle AZO Yellow and M. Graham's AZO Yellow which I have in stock.

Don,

That sucks. I think it is probably worst to have a pigment you like be discontinued, than just searching for one you like. I almost grabbed a gamboge when I picked up the quin. gold, but these pigments are expensive and I resisted the urge.

 

[R Shaffer]

I really like PY150, nickle azo yellow. It comes out of the tube like a yellow ochre, but clears to a warmish transparent yellow that's not too green or too orange. Blends well with quinacridone violet and 'thalo red shade, but I've only tried the M Graham version. Looks nice over cyanotypes as well.

O.T. - Colin,
I pilfered your QTR carbon curve off the carbonworks site. I'm going to a carbon workshop with Vaughn this weekend and plan to give it a go. Thanks for sharing it, I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Colin Graham]

Thanks for giving it a try Rob, I've always been curious if it would work for anyone else's workflow. Would be interested in hearing your results either way.
Have fun at the workshop, you couldn't pick a better teacher.

 

[dwross2]

I really like Hansa Yellow Medium, sometimes with a bit of Hansa Deep or Hansa Light, depending on the image. The Hansa set blends with the rest of my colors to make a very good rendition of a GretagMacbeth ColorChecker chart. (I use Daniel Smith watercolors.)

 

[R Shaffer]

I really like Hansa Yellow Medium, sometimes with a bit of Hansa Deep or Hansa Light, depending on the image. The Hansa set blends with the rest of my colors to make a very good rendition of a GretagMacbeth ColorChecker chart. (I use Daniel Smith watercolors.)

That looks like another good choice, especially for tri-color.

I am quickly beginning to understand why you need an MFA just to figure out what paint color your buying. As I have researched these various colors and compared them to what I have I see that the Schmincke Lemon Yellow I have mostly been using is in the yellow-green range. Definitely not what I am after.

Where-as the hansa yellow medium, nickle yellow and discontinued gamboge are in the orange yellow range ( mucho better ). I have only made a couple of prints with quin gold, but it and the yellow ochre are earth yellows which look to be much closer to what I want. Gonna give my gold a few more tries.

Part of the problem is that I really really try to buy as many supplies as I can from my local independent art suppliers. So I can get Schmincke or Winsor & Newton, both quite good pigments, but rarely do they have the exact color I am looking for. So I pick one I think is close ( NOT ).

This time I am going to call them and special order the specific color if they don't have one of these in stock.

Thanks, these have been great choices and quite a learning experience.

 

[Colin Graham]

Maybe try mixing a warmer version of your existing paints with some orange or other tinting. I usually disperse full 15ml tubes of paint in 75ml of gum so they are easier to measure for custom, repeatable tints. Another thought is to try a warmer paper stock if you aren't getting the tones you want.

I like using local supplies as well, and I'm very fortunate to have a local stationary store that sells M Graham paints cheaper than Dick Blick.

 

[R Shaffer]

I've tried that a couple of times. Part of my problem is that I am really pathetic when it comes to colors, what can I say, I'm an engineer. I've tried making paint little paint dabs on scraps.

When I did the gum workshop last summer, I just used pigment mixes created by the artists in the class. They always made too big a batches and had plenty extra.

 

[PVia]

My favorite yellow is New Gamboge by M. Graham. It's no longer made though and I'm about to run out so I'm looking for a replacement. Gamboge is too orange.

Guess I'll try Nickle AZO Yellow and M. Graham's AZO Yellow which I have in stock.

Daniel Smith has a New Gamboge that is very nice...

 

[gmikol]

I am quickly beginning to understand why you need an MFA just to figure out what paint color your buying. As I have researched these various colors and compared them to what I have I see that the Schmincke Lemon Yellow I have mostly been using is in the yellow-green range. Definitely not what I am after.

Rob--

A pleasure to meet you this weekend...I didn't get a chance to mention it, but if you're not already familiar with it, check out:

http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/waterfs.html

Bruce MacEvoy has done extensive research on watercolor pigments, with detailed discussions about a large number of them. Even within a given pigment family, he'll discuss which brands are more red, or more green, etc. Very enlightening, IMO.

--Greg

 

[donbga]

Daniel Smith has a New Gamboge that is very nice...

Thanks Paul I'm been thinking about trying it.

Don

 

[PVia]

Rob--

http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/waterfs.html

Bruce MacEvoy has done extensive research on watercolor pigments, with detailed discussions about a large number of them. Even within a given pigment family, he'll discuss which brands are more red, or more green, etc. Very enlightening, IMO.

--Greg

That's a great site. I've been going there for years for pigment info...even when I do things (hush!) non-photographic.

 

[R Shaffer]

Rob--

A pleasure to meet you this weekend...I didn't get a chance to mention it, but if you're not already familiar with it, check out:

http://handprint.com/HP/WCL/waterfs.html

Bruce MacEvoy has done extensive research on watercolor pigments, with detailed discussions about a large number of them. Even within a given pigment family, he'll discuss which brands are more red, or more green, etc. Very enlightening, IMO.

--Greg

Ciao Greg,

Yea, that is the site was researching on. Wonderful amount of info there, but almost overwhelming. I'm pretty useless when it comes to colors.

It was a pleasure meeting you & fun workshop. Make sure and post some of your results from all those tissues you scored.

Rob

 

[samwang]

Second on Hansa Yellow

I had a bottle of Boucour Hansa yellow that I used for many years and it worked great - easy to disperse and good color, etc. When it got depleted I had a hard time finding something similar. I guess I'll try the Daniel Smith brand next.

Sam

 

[Katharine Thayer]

Color mixups

Hi, I'm way late to this thread and wouldn't bother responding except that I think the indiscriminate (and no doubt inadvertent) use of marketing labels instead of pigment names has made this discussion difficult to follow, and may be worth a comment. I'd say by Rob's recent gallery submissions that he's doing fine whatever yellow he's decided on, but just for future reference, one should go by the Color Index pigment names and numbers, not by the name the manufacturer gives the paint, because in many cases there's no connection between the marketing name of the paint and the actual pigment that's in it. For example, Rob refers to "Quinacridone Gold" that he's tried and been disappointed with, but then goes on to indicate that his "Quinacridone Gold" contains no actual "Quinacridone Gold" (PO 49)pigment, so it's no wonder that he's disappointed with the results, compared to someone who is using actual Quinacridone Gold pigment. Manufacture of PO 49 ceased in 2001; Daniel Smith bought up a large supply of the remaining pigment, and Daniel Smith is the only paint manufacturer still using PO 49; everyone else ran out and discontinued using the pigment by 2005. Any paint now sold under the name Quinacridone Gold by any manufacturer other than Daniel Smith is not actually Quinacridone Gold, and will most likely be a convenience mixture of other pigments mixed to sort of simulate the appearance of Quinacridone Gold, but the mixture will not have the authentic appearance or behavior of the actual pigment. When working with pigments, it helps to know what *pigments* you're working with, because they behave very differently.

Katharine Thayer

 

[R Shaffer]

Hi, I'm way late to this thread and wouldn't bother responding except that I think the indiscriminate (and no doubt inadvertent) use of marketing labels instead of pigment names has made this discussion difficult to follow, and may be worth a comment.

Katharine Thayer

Katharine,

I'll take your advice on all-things-gum any way I can get them.

Your absolutely correct that the Quinacridone Gold I was disappointed with had no PO49 in it. It was a mix of PR206,PV19 & PY150.

As a follow up on my quest. I ended up with Nickle Azo, PY150 ( aka W&N Transparent Yellow ) and have been thoroughly happy with it on my tri-color & gum-over prints. It is nice and bright, not too green and does not leave any haze.

Thanks for your input, I'll try and be more specific.

 

[Colin Graham]

Nickle azo is a great pigment, very intense. Not sure of the other brands but with the M Graham version I only need about half of what I normally use in PY97 or PY151.