Queries on 'STARTERS' for C41 Process

[Tom Taylor]

But if, as in one-shot rotary tube processing, a started is not needed, then are the raw Parts A, B, and C of the Kodak Developer/Replenisher without adding the starter a "Developer?; and if so then would you add the extra water used with the starter to make a working tank? Same for the Fuji and would you replace the volume of the starter (25mL) with water?

 

[mshchem]

But if, as in one-shot rotary tube processing, a started is not needed, then are the raw Parts A, B, and C of the Kodak Developer/Replenisher without adding the starter a "Developer?; and if so then would you add the extra water used with the starter to make a working tank? Same for the Fuji and would you replace the volume of the starter (25mL) with water?

The starter is used to make a "seasoned" tank solution when starting anew with deep tanks or a minilab. Kodak sells Developer Replenisher, not Developer. So yes to follow by the book you will need to dilute the Replenisher slightly.
I use starter even though I use a Jobo one shot. The starter is very inexpensive, and has dilution instructions right on the label. See my earlier post.

 

[RPC]

But if, as in one-shot rotary tube processing, a started is not needed, then are the raw Parts A, B, and C of the Kodak Developer/Replenisher without adding the starter a "Developer?; and if so then would you add the extra water used with the starter to make a working tank? Same for the Fuji and would you replace the volume of the starter (25mL) with water?

No matter what kind of development you are doing, ask yourself a question. Do I have replenisher or developer?. If replenisher, add water and starter. If regular developer, don't. It's that simple. At home, with one-shot or not, or at a lab, if you have only replenisher and no developer you must make developer out of replenisher by adding water AND starter, if you want proper results.

 

[koraks]

in one-shot rotary tube processing, a started is not needed,

This is not correct!! As @RPC stated, you need to add the starter and the correct dilution for the "fresh tank" mix. The dilution is necessary to get the correct gamma, the starter is necessary to get the correct color balance.

 

[BMbikerider]

The current C41 developer I use is one sold under the name of 'Digibase' and that has starter and is added to the developer when it is made up by the user. I have long held the belief (mine by experience) that film working developers made up from various chemical concentrates have a much longer life than developers that are already pre-mixed. This Digibase in particular reinforces my findings that this is so.
I opened a 5lt kit about 10 months ago and it is getting very near the end but the developer chemicals 'A', 'B', and 'C' have remained exactly the same as when I first opened the bottles with no discolouration evident. They are so simple to mix but the 'starter' only requires a minute amount - 2.5cc for 250cc of working solution which requires the use of a syringe to get accurate measurement.

 

[halfaman]

Digibase kit has an exceptional shelf life in my experience, the CD-4 concentrate keeps surprinsingly well opened and in contact with air. Not a common behaviour compared with to other products.

 

[foc]

In a photo lab, C41 developer replenisher is mixed and used to replenish the developer tank solution. This dev tank can be called a seasoned solution or working solution BUT it is not a tank of raw replenisher.

If for some reason a new C41 developer tank solution needs to be made up, then the replenisher is mixed and the required amount of dev starter is added and then topped up with water, as per starter instructions. Now the tank is a working solution and can be used to process C41 films.

See below.

 

[BMbikerider]

Digibase kit has an exceptional shelf life in my experience, the CD-4 concentrate keeps surprinsingly well opened and in contact with air. Not a common behaviour compared with to other products.

So I am not imagining it - thanks for the confirmation.

Just to explain further, I never reuse developer I always use once and discard. That way I am assured of consistency. Not the most economical I know but that is just me.

 

[koraks]

that is just me

You're not alone, I also use C41 developer one shot.

 

[Tom Taylor]

Everyone is either missing or dodging the question. Consider the mixing instruction diagram in post 34 above: Is, after adding Color Developer Part A to Part B and then to Part C, the resultant a "Color Developer?" Will it develop a roll of film without adding a starter? At one time Kodak made a C-41 developer that did not require adding a starter.

 

[MattKing]

Everyone is either missing or dodging the question. Consider the mixing instruction diagram in post 34 above: Is, after adding Color Developer Part A to Part B and then to Part C, the resultant a "Color Developer?" Will it develop a roll of film without adding a starter? At one time Kodak made a C-41 developer that did not require adding a starter.

Yes, but there will be some colour crossover and it will be over-developed unless you reduce the developing time, which will in turn add a colour cast on top of the crossover.
It would be fine for the C-41 black and white films.
The extent of the colour issues may or may not be within your tolerance levels.

 

[BMbikerider]

Look at it this way. If they didn't include the starter to be added to the developer what is it there for? Of course it should be included in the ratio it is recommended. Making a hash of developing a film is a heavy price to pay when a few CC's provided in the kit of a chemical missed out, can make all the difference between success and a disaster.

 

[MattKing]

As I understand it, Starter is a bit hard to get right now. Does anyone have at hand some illustrative examples and/or sensitometric data of what the results are if one is forced to develop C41 film in replenisher that has been appropriately diluted, but not appropriately "Started"?
Something to help quantify the colour crossover, contrast and colour cast observations I just posted about.

 

[Tom Taylor]

That would be helpful! I've looked all over and no starter is available unless you purchase a kit. I have plenty of Flexicolor bleach and final rinse and replenisher but no starter. I even have close to a gallon of Flexicolor bleach starter which I no longer use and overlooked when discarding expired chemistry. In fact, if anyone near the SF Bay area has any C-41 starter, I'll be willing to trade the bleach starter for enough starter to tide me over until it's back in stock.

 

[RPC]

At one time Kodak made a C-41 developer that did not require adding a starter.

This and from other manufacturers as well is what is often meant when the term "developer" is used as opposed to "replenisher". This is equivalent to the replenisher + starter + water.

If you cannot find any starter, I have seen threads before by others with the same problem, and asked for help on how to formulate their own starter. You might search for those.

 

[foc]

Here are a few links for C41 starter to buy online, hope it helps.

USA based
https://www.pakor.com/fuji-neg-n1-s-developer-starter-6-x-1-l
https://www.pakor.com/kodak-starter-c-41-f1-processing-unit-12-l

EU based
https://www.macodirect.de/en/chemis...igibase-c-41-d-colour-developer-starter-100ml

Uk based.
https://silverprint.co.uk/collections/colour-chemistry/products/xc972901
https://silverprint.co.uk/products/104045

One other alternative is to call to your local lab/minilab and ask if they have C41 starter and will they sell you some. You may have to call to a few labs before finding success.

 

[mshchem]

I've always used starters. It's part of following the instructions for me. Kits are formulated to use without starter and without replenishment.

 

[mshchem]

In a photo lab, C41 developer replenisher is mixed and used to replenish the developer tank solution. This dev tank can be called a seasoned solution or working solution BUT it is not a tank of raw replenisher.

If for some reason a new C41 developer tank solution needs to be made up, then the replenisher is mixed and the required amount of dev starter is added and then topped up with water, as per starter instructions. Now the tank is a working solution and can be used to process C41 films.

See below.

View attachment 296070

This is perfect!!