Quantum Turbo battery replacement or modification?

fdonadio · Sep 25, 2018

Hello, all!

Not sure if I should post this to the Lighting subforum or here but, since it has to do with equipment repairs or modifications, I thought this was the right place. Please, moderators, move the thread if it doesn't fit here.

I was given a handful of "dead" Quantum Turbos. All of them are of the earlier model with the faux (?) leather case and only one port for connecting a flash. I will be trying to repair them and the most obvious first step would be replacing the batteries. Needless to say, I can't find that battery (PS-832) here in Brazil and, being a bulky and heavy item, I won't even think about buying from abroad. So, I am looking for alternatives that I can find locally.

I thought about using NiMH or even LiFePO4 cells. With NiMH cells, the battery would supply 8.4 volts, which is pretty close to the factory standard of 8 volts. Using LiFePO4 cells, it would be a but higher, at 9.6 volts, which may be a little harmful. In either case, I would need to hack a connector for charging the batteries with an external charger, as the built-in circuitry won't work with anything but sealed lead-acid batteries.

So, my questions are: would 9.6 volts be too high a tension for this circuitry? Should I consider other battery chemistries? Should I just trash these units?

Cheers,
Flavio

Edit: fixed some typos.

Chan Tran · Sep 25, 2018

I think the Quantum turbo uses NiMH cells.

fdonadio · Sep 25, 2018

Chan Tran said:
I think the Quantum turbo uses NiMH cells.

Maybe the newer models — the all-plastic later ones come to mind. I disassembled one of mine and the battery is a Power Sonic PS-832 8V 3.2Ah sealed lead-acid battery.

AgX · Sep 25, 2018

I do not see the advantage today of schlepping around such a lead battery unless one actually needs the capacity of a multiple of the standard primary batteries.
I assume at least the advantage of lead batteries of high drain current is gone with the advent of cheap NiMh batteries.

In the long past there even was a high-voltage battery, directly charging the main capacitor.

ic-racer · Sep 25, 2018

If you know about Lipo and know how to charge them, that could be an option. I'm using this LiPo in my Rollei Flash. It can be disconnected from the adapter for balance charging on a dedicated charger. No protection circuit, so I just have to remember to turn the flash off when not in use. If I do trash the battery from over-discharge, a new one is less than $10. That is less than the 'throw-away' batteries for my Nikon .

AgX · Sep 25, 2018

I am worried about the severe accidents happened over here involving Lithium-ion batteries, so that I would like to avoid them whenever possible.

shutterfinger · Sep 25, 2018

Is this one close to what you have? https://www.batterymart.com/p-sla-ps-832.html
The battery will read 8.4V to 8.6V when fully charged.
I would need to see a schematic for the unit to know if 9.6V was too high or not. You could always drop the voltage down with a regulator or resistor.

Patrick Robert James · Sep 25, 2018

I wouldn't use a Turbo battery anymore. They are just too bulky for what they are. No point in throwing any money at them really unless you have a specific application in mind or want to use an old flash.

Chan Tran · Sep 25, 2018

fdonadio said:
Maybe the newer models — the all-plastic later ones come to mind. I disassembled one of mine and the battery is a Power Sonic PS-832 8V 3.2Ah sealed lead-acid battery.

Yes my bad! The kind of battery you need is widely available in the US and relatively inexpensive (about $20) but you may have problem getting them where you are. The battery does have relatively high internal resistance and the flash may draw too much current if NiMH is used.

fdonadio · Sep 25, 2018

AgX said:
I assume at least the advantage of lead batteries of high drain current is gone with the advent of cheap NiMh batteries.

Yeah, that’s what I thought. NiMH and the latest Lithium technologies pack much more power in a smaller and lighter package. The discharge rate of the LiFePO4 batteries is almost the same of the SLA’s and the price isn’t much higher!

AgX said:
I am worried about the severe accidents happened over here involving Lithium-ion batteries, so that I would like to avoid them whenever possible.

I want to avoid Li-Ion and Li-Poly for this reason.

fdonadio · Sep 25, 2018

ic-racer said:
If you know about Lipo and know how to charge them, that could be an option.

Yes, I know how to work with Lithium batteries and can get custom made packs with protection built-in. The protection circuit boards are really cheap and, being forgetful as I am, I better go with them.

But, if I need to choose between Li-Ion, Li-Poly or LiFePO4, I’d go with the later. Much safer.

fdonadio · Sep 25, 2018

Patrick Robert James said:
I wouldn't use a Turbo battery anymore. They are just too bulky for what they are. No point in throwing any money at them really unless you have a specific application in mind or want to use an old flash.

My flashes are old Metz 45’s. I love them. Except for the crappy Ni-Cd packs or spending millions in alkaline batteries.

fdonadio · Sep 25, 2018

shutterfinger said:
I would need to see a schematic for the unit to know if 9.6V was too high or not. You could always drop the voltage down with a regulator or resistor.

Uhhmmm... I hadn’t thought about the resistor. Good idea.

Chan Tran said:
The battery does have relatively high internal resistance and the flash may draw too much current if NiMH is used.

Since resistors increase resistance, maybe I would be killing two birds with one stone here?

wiltw · Sep 25, 2018

Patrick Robert James said:
I wouldn't use a Turbo battery anymore. They are just too bulky for what they are. No point in throwing any money at them really unless you have a specific application in mind or want to use an old flash.

On the other hand, with NiMH, you need multiple sets of batteries (8 AA per set for today's battery packs), to equal the capacity offered by 3200 milliamps that the lead acid provides. An additional benefit is that the Quantum Turbo, used with the appropriate cable, can be used with a wide variety of brands of flashes, while the NiMH packs offered today are generally dedicated to a single brand of flash.

Admittedly the NiMH power pack can keep going, with additional sets of 8 AA NiMH, while the Quantum Turbo recharges after the lead acid cell is depleted.

shutterfinger · Sep 25, 2018

My 45 CT5 bit the dust.
Want it for parts for the cost of shipping?
A zener diode might be better than a resistor.

fdonadio · Sep 25, 2018

shutterfinger said:
My 45 CT5 bit the dust.
Want it for parts for the cost of shipping?
A zener diode might be better than a resistor.

Thanks for the offer! I should have mentioned I also got a handful of Metz 45-CL1’s along with those Quantums. So, I guess I have lots of spare parts (and lots of trash, too).

It was the first time someone gave me that much equipment!

I’ll be visiting an electronics shop tomorrow where they sell all kinds of batteries. I’m gonna talk to a technician and see what he can do for me.

EdSawyer · Sep 25, 2018

LiFePO4 is also much lighter than lead-acid. I use one in my car, it's tiny, and only about 4 lbs. But, not cheap, it was around $280 I think. I think they are less picky about balance charging than LiPos, though they do still have the pinout to balance charge it if necessary.

I would avoid a dropping resistor to lower voltage, it's going to have to dissipate some amount of heat to do so, and that's the last thing you want to add to the equation. A solid-state regulator would be better, or some other solution along those lines (DC-DC stepdown converter maybe?)

fdonadio · Sep 25, 2018

EdSawyer said:
LiFePO4 is also much lighter than lead-acid. I use one in my car, it's tiny, and only about 4 lbs. But, not cheap, it was around $280 I think.

That’s because of the number of cells. For the current you need in a car (to start it, for example), you need lots of cells in parallel.

In my case, three 3.2V, 3000mAh LiFePO4 cells are around 30% cheaper than seven 1.2V, 3500mAh NiMH cells.

Chan Tran · Sep 26, 2018

fdonadio said:
Uhhmmm... I hadn’t thought about the resistor. Good idea.

Since resistors increase resistance, maybe I would be killing two birds with one stone here?

Depending on which flash you use the battery pack with. Many of the older flashes when it starts it is like a short circuit and the manufacturer depended on the fact that the battery can not supply too much current due to its internal resistance. Some of these flashes can get damaged when used with NiMH or NiCad. However, newer flashes actually benefit from this as they can draw more current from the battery and recycle faster.

AgX · Sep 26, 2018

Chan Tran said:
Many of the older flashes when it starts it is like a short circuit and the manufacturer depended on the fact that the battery can not supply too much current due to its internal resistance.
Some of these flashes can get damaged when used with NiMH or NiCad.

But what is the critical part? Sure not the main capacitator.

shutterfinger · Sep 26, 2018

A copy of the service manual for the Metz 45CT1 can be purchased here: http://www.metz.user-manuals.com/list-of-manuals-682-6783.html
Attached is the power/flash tube portion of the schematic for the 45 CT5. The PDF only allows printing so this is a scan of the print on plain paper. I speculate the same or similar is used in all 45 series Metz flash.

fdonadio · Sep 26, 2018

I went out to buy the sealed lead-acid battery today, like I said, and didn’t find it. The salesman said it would be very difficult to find them in Brazil, like I was suspecting based on my internet searches.

I found some 2V C-size (or are they D?) SLA cells, but they were crazy expensive. Four of them would fit perfectly and supply the right voltage!

I’m not quitting yet. Gonna try and look a little more.

Chan Tran · Sep 26, 2018

AgX said:
But what is the critical part? Sure not the main capacitator.

I believe the critical part that would burn out is the transistor in the DC to AC converter.

shutterfinger · Sep 27, 2018

Chan Tran said:
I believe the critical part that would burn out is the transistor in the DC to AC converter.

BD288 spec sheet:
https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=25049

fdonadio · Sep 27, 2018

Thanks for the information about the flash guns. The 45-CL1’s will need some work.

Finally, I got a pair of rectangular 4V cells, wired them in series. They are charging now and should be good by tomorrow morning, when I’ll be testing the Quantums’ bare boards.

Yes, I know about electric shock hazard and will take the appropriate measures to avoid it.

Quantum Turbo battery replacement or modification?

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