quality and avalability

[bunktheory65]

who is making modern 110 cameras, or other 16mm film based stuff? I have seen them being sold so just not sure thoughts and recommendations.

al

 

[ciniframe]

Lomography has the Diana Baby 110, a toy camera with plastic lenses, a 12mm and 24mm. This camera shoots a square format on 110 film. I believe the camera is new but discontinued given they are selling it at a close out price. Other than that there are no new 110 cameras in production, not for a long time. Rather doubt there ever will be.
For more information on 110/16mm see the lively thread “110/16mm camera image quality” in this sub forum.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The big issue with 110 cameras is that Lomography has been the only source for new film cartridges for a few years now -- and the cameras are useless without that cartridge. Some have succeeded in reloading the cartridge, and some of the cameras will work with reloads, either unperforated film or kludged into function with standard 16 mm cine perf, but it's a PITA compared to the 16 mm cameras designed to use either cine perf or unperforated film -- the latter can use film recut from 35 mm or 120, the former the still widely available (albeit with limited emulsion choices) film sold for semi-pro movie cameras.

That said, there are a bunch of pretty good 110 cameras easily available from the usual "don't know if it works" sources for very little money, and Lomography appears to be "producing" new film, at least three emulsion choices (100 and 400 B&W and 200 color -- might be 100 slides, too, haven't looked recently). The better 110 cameras can produce very good results on these films, so it's worth buying the Lomography film to encourage them to keep it in production (hopefully the molds for the cartridge parts are in good shape and will last a while).

 

[ciniframe]

The more I see results from the Kiev 30 the more I believe it has the best bang for buck in 16mm. The plus features are;
1. Focusing lens, by scale, from 20 inches to infinity. After futzing with supplemental distance and close up lenses on my Minolta 16 II this is a big plus.
2. Frame size of 13x17mm. (That little bit bigger than my Minolta 16 II frame of 10x14mm is a big difference in practice.)
3. Can use Minolta 16 cassettes and Russian made also, unlike 110 cartridges they are easy to reload. This can translate to cost of $1 per roll for B&W and $2-$3 a roll for color negative (slit from 35mm or 120) as opposed to $8-9 a roll for 110 film.

The caveat with any former Soviet Union camera is variable quality control, you could get a very good one or perhaps a not working or not quite as good a lens. A three element, 23mm f3.5 with stops to f11 and a 3 speed shutter with 1/30-1/60-1/200 but no ‘B’ setting. There are several vendors on ebay selling them for $30-$50, quite a few out of Ukraine with shipping times running 3-5 weeks to the US.

 

[xya]

donald, don't forget the fantastic lomography metropolis film, also available in 110 format....

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

'Modern' 16mm equipment is mostly relegated to cinematic applications, e.g. the Aaton XTR (https://www.camerarentals.nl/catalogue/aaton-xtr-prod/), Canon Scoopic, or your favorite Arri model.

16mm film as a medium for still photography essentially ended with the introduction of the 110 format, and then, subminiature still photography as a whole with the decline of 110. Luckily for us, there are options for photographers with both cassette-based 16mm and 110 these days. As an analog format, it is awkwardly wedged between the 35mm still & Super8 cine resurgences. All that R&D hasn't gone to waste though, as similarly sized digital sensors (M4/3, 1") rule some segments of the digital photography / cinematography market. .

The cameras are abundant, the film is available, and options for producing final images from the processed film have never been better.

 

[Donald Qualls]

The more I see results from the Kiev 30 the more I believe it has the best bang for buck in 16mm.

That's very likely correct. There are better 16 mm cameras, on one basis or another, but few combine the ease of reloading, use of drop-in cassettes, negative size, lens speed (f/2.8) and easy focusing, with the very compact size, and none do it for junk-store prices.

 

[ciniframe]

It’s really too bad that 16mm still photography died. Even after digital started its ascendancy improved films were introduced. As Huss and others have shown in the other 16mm thread, careful technique can produce reasonable 8x10 enlargements.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Well, I can still carry my Kiev 30 and reload its cassettes -- and with a good enough scanner, get bigger files than a ten year old Nikon DSLR. Whether the quality is any better is a matter of focus, steadiness, exposure, and film/processing/scanning. But as long as I can buy 120 or 35mm film to slit, "I can do this all day" (to quote Steve Rogers).

 

[Huss]

donald, don't forget the fantastic lomography metropolis film, also available in 110 format....

Yup, Metropolis is fantastic.

It really is quite incredible how Lomography supports film. In 110 they provide Lomochrome Purple, Metropolis, Tiger, Orca, Redscale and Peacock.
That is six different types!
Fuji, Kodak, Ilford? Collectively? ZERO.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Don't they have Earl Grey and Lady Grey in 110 as well? I thought I'd seen those...

 

[Huss]

Don't they have Earl Grey and Lady Grey in 110 as well? I thought I'd seen those...

I think they 'did' but I don't see them on the lomo site.

 

[ciniframe]

I think they 'did' but I don't see them on the lomo site.

This demonstrates one big advantage to 16mm cameras that are not 110. Any film you can buy in 35mm or 120 is available for your camera if you have a film slitter. A 36 exposure roll of 35mm will supply 3 rolls of 20 exposures each for my Minolta 16 and 120 would probably make 6 short (16 exp) loads for Minolta cartridges.

 

[Donald Qualls]

120 would probably make 6 short (16 exp) loads for Minolta cartridges.

Actually, with care and the right slitting setup, a 120 roll will produce eight rolls that give between 18 and 20 exposures in a Minolta cartridge. The strips will be 15.5 mm wide, but that will work in all non-perf 16mm cameras I'm aware of. A little care is needed in loading the cassette to minimize waste, and in loading the camera (don't advance any more than necessary) when using half-length strips cut from 120. A Kiev 30 or 303, OTOH, will get 30+ exposures on a full length 120 strip, giving up to four rolls of up to about 40 exposures.

Bottom line, many of the better 110 cameras are much easier to use than 16 mm, and have features that aren't found in the easy to find 16 mm types (rangefinders, auto exposure, built-in flash), traded off for limited control, limited film speed options, and that damned cartridge...

 

[Huss]

This demonstrates one big advantage to 16mm cameras that are not 110. Any film you can buy in 35mm or 120 is available for your camera if you have a film slitter. A 36 exposure roll of 35mm will supply 3 rolls of 20 exposures each for my Minolta 16 and 120 would probably make 6 short (16 exp) loads for Minolta cartridges.

Flip side is I can just got out and buy ready to go 110 cartridges, in a variety of flavours.

The lovely Lomo Metropolis in 110:



2nd is Lomo Mistaken Identity, which is actually Lomo Purple or Metropolis with incorrect film markings. This one ended up being Metropolis




There are two fantastic 110 cameras out there - the harder to find Rollei A110 (my favourite), and the excellent easy to find Pentax Auto 110.

 

[ciniframe]

Flip side is I can just got out and buy ready to go 110 cartridges, in a variety of flavours.

The lovely Lomo Metropolis in 110:



2nd is Lomo Mistaken Identity, which is actually Lomo Purple or Metropolis with incorrect film markings. This one ended up being Metropolis




There are two fantastic 110 cameras out there - the harder to find Rollei A110 (my favourite), and the excellent easy to find Pentax Auto 110.

Convenient for sure, and if I’m being honest, much less chance of scratched film. I always notice how clean your shots are. Cleanliness is the constant battle for film reloaders. Many a time nose grease has saved my negatives from fine scratches on the base side.
Great shots, by the way.