Pyrocat-HD & HP5 semi-stand

Gents, maybe my search chops are defective, but I don't see anything on what concentration is used for PHD when doing semi-stand. 'Almost like 20 threads talk about different elements, but I haven't found one talking about concentration *and* the agitation regimen. Anyone doing 35 & 120 in a tank (patterson in my case) that uses this film/dev/method? 'Would appreciate hearing your experience. First roll w/ normal agitation is quite decent. I want to see how the semi would look. Many Thx. I appreciate your kind help.

Assuming you will make standard prints, I'd start with 1-1-100 or maybe 1.5-1-100. Most 400 spend films recommend 10-minutes at 20F with normal agitation, so I'd try 15-18 minutes with a minute initial agitation and 10-seconds half way through. Some would say it's best to agitate at five minute intervals with no advantage to longer intervals.
Juan

Website devoted to Pyrocat-HD: http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/

I have never semi-stood roll film. I've only ever used sheet film from 4x5 and up. Anyways, I dilute Pyrocat-HD 5ml+5ml+1200ml water. This is enough to fill an 8x10 BTZS tube. 21 degrees Celcius. I usually develop for 60 minutes. I agitate at the start for 30 seconds. Then 5 seconds every 20 minutes. I always pull the film out, invert, then reinsert after I agitate. This reduces any bromide drag considerably. I don't bother presoaking the film in water.
I would use this method for roll film.

Make sure you have plenty of developer covering the film!

Andrew & Juan, Thank You!

Andrew - it was your concentration I referenced at 1:1:240. I just didn't know what, if any adjustment were needed going from tube to tank. The absence of pre-soak, I wouldn't have guessed. Thank You.

I've been all over the pyro site, and the sheet at formulary. If it does HP5, its shot at EI 200 (formulary) If it mentions semi - its w/ Delta 3200 (Sandy's & Formulary)'seems like at least one element has been missing in each reference.

As I think about your inverting the sheet film, I'm wondering/hoping the lid on a patterson tank is good enough to alternate standing right-side up, then upside-down. I would think this might be a similar move for the bromide drag - espec. for the 120 film. I'll have to test the lid & find out. My one tank's lid isn't very watertight, but the other one is.

Again, I appreciate your kind help!

HiHo, what advantage do you see in your prints, when you do semi-stand development vs. normal ?
I remember seeing some difference using D-76, but with Pyro I wouldn't have thought there could be an
improvement, or is there ?

'Nuts. 'Lost some text, looking for an image that showed some of the effect I was seeking.

There are surfaces or textures that render differently in ways I like. They aren't even pictorially accurate, but a beautiful treatment. I see it most often on smooth metal that seems to show a different tone quality. As a practice, I see stand as a controversy. For straight dev., I've had my most consistent & highest quality from plain old D-76. I've not tried low agitation w/ D-76. I have tried HC-110 & R09 (rodinal one shot) with minimal agitation. Straight dev on the first use of PHD showed less grain, agitating 4 inversions every 3 min. with 45s initial and a 3m pre-soak. Dev & final wetting rinse are mixed w/ distilled water.

As you can see above, Andrew seems to use it w/ good effect. I've not seen the shot of the B-17 motor since the website change. There are two (both nice), but not the one I was seeking. I liked the first results w/ PHD, and it shows promise for further use and for trying the semi-stand. I can only say w/ confidence after a number of rolls.

For me, there is an increase in local contrasts, and a huge, overall increase in sharpness. I like to use this technique when I have an image with lots of texture. If you have large areas of even tone like a cloudless sky, I would be very careful as mottling/unevenness may occur, especially if you employ full on stand development (I avoid it!) In these situations I always shoot a backup (I use sheet film).
The last time I used semi-stand was with 8x10, double-sided X-ray film. Side-by-side comparisons with the same image that received conventional development in Pyrocat-Hd, was no contest. The semi-stand version kicked the conventional version through the uprights, tonally and for sharpness. I believe I uploaded them over at the LF forum in the X-ray thread...

Andrew, Thank You! Its no secret your work and your thoughts are given great weight. I appreciate your taking the time on where/when/why here. Peter has also mentioned different pyro processes that seemed well worth pursuing. 'Hope to have a roll to try semi with today or tomorrow. Again, Gents, I sure appreciate your kind help.

Thank you! You are very welcome. Obsidian Aqua is also an excellent developer for semi-stand development.

A roll is drying now, following method above. 2.5 each: 600, no presoak, 30 initial, 5s every 20. 'A little cooler than 21c. Massive Dev calculator recommended 68 instead of 60 to adjust.
I realize I hadn't asked about stop bath. I used plain water at same temp as Dev/fix/wash. 3 fills w/ constant aggitation for 1 min ea. 5 min. fix w/ Ilford rapid. They're drying now. 'Don't put too much weight on how they look wet, but they look sharp & lots of contrast. 'Preciate the help, gents. I'll post at least one from the roll.

I always use water with either a splash of vinegar in it or citric acid for a stop bath. Look forward to seeing your results.

Am not a gent but I have used 1-1-100 with great results

ann said:

Am not a gent but I have used 1-1-100 with great results

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That's OK Ann, girls are allowed to use it too! I don't use Pyrocat-HD, but do use Pyrocat-MC 1.5-1.5-100 a lot. I have tried the MC version semi-stand and it worked fine, but for razor-sharp I use Jay DeFehr's Hypercat semi-stand and full-stand. This only works for certain scenes since the "edge effects" are really overpowering.

Hi Ann. Thanks for hopping in. My posts last wk were w/ 1-1-100, regular agitation. They were a bit overdeveloped, but it was clear the pyro was a strong player. I've only used PHD twice so far - one regular, one semi-stand. I'll have some work to do to get more familiar.

JWP - also thx for word on Hypercat.

'Not sure how sensitive it will be to uneven developing & at what point that happens. This got 5s agitation at 20 min. marks. It would be interesting to see if a single 5s ag at the 30 min. mark would tone down highlights any further and whether or not it starts showing the uneven effects.

If you are using Pyrocat-HD, start with 1:1:100 and then agitate every 3 min, but first make sure to do an initial, vigorous agitation of 90 sec. Unless it is flat light, I would use an EI of 200ish. I found with -HD that you can use 1:1:125 or 1:1:133, but I would not do this with -MC. There are instructions on the Pyrocat-hd.com website on the place to start and times.

HiHoSilver said:

Hi Ann. Thanks for hopping in. My posts last wk were w/ 1-1-100, regular agitation. They were a bit overdeveloped, but it was clear the pyro was a strong player. I've only used PHD twice so far - one regular, one semi-stand. I'll have some work to do to get more familiar.

JWP - also thx for word on Hypercat.

'Not sure how sensitive it will be to uneven developing & at what point that happens. This got 5s agitation at 20 min. marks. It would be interesting to see if a single 5s ag at the 30 min. mark would tone down highlights any further and whether or not it starts showing the uneven effects.

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Hypercat isn't for everyone, but it does work very well when you a looking for that type of negative for that type of scene. I have also heard that Obsidian Aqua is pretty much the same as Hypercat only easier to use. I spend far to much time messing around with developers, but do enjoy it. I find myself using pyro/catechol developers for most of my films. Why? Well, I wet print and scan and to me the stained negatives make both scanning and wet printing much, much easier. They are not as easy to get a grasp of as say D-76, but are worth it for me anyway.