Pyrocat? A good Developer to start with?

Bobby Brewster said:

stand developing

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Start with normal agitation first to establish a baseline. Then see if you want to do variations on the theme. You'll find (if you search this forum) that 'stand development' is a rather contentious topic.

Bobby Brewster said:

Should I decrease the speed if I use standard development times then? When you say slightly would you say around 1/3 - 1/2 stop ?

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With Rodinal I'd suggest overexposing by about a stop, but it depends on what kind of film you use. When I used Rodinal, I mostly shot Fomapan 100. That definitely could do with the extra stop of exposure.

Personally, I'd pick Pyrocat over Rodinal.

mpirie said:

Maybe have a look at John Finch's Pictorial Planet website as a great resource for mixing various darkroom chemicals and the differences between them.

Mike

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Yes I saw these. They were very helpful

koraks said:

Start with normal agitation first to establish a baseline. Then see if you want to do variations on the theme. You'll find (if you search this forum) that 'stand development' is a rather contentious topic.



With Rodinal I'd suggest overexposing by about a stop, but it depends on what kind of film you use. When I used Rodinal, I mostly shot Fomapan 100. That definitely could do with the extra stop of exposure.

Personally, I'd pick Pyrocat over Rodinal.

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Thank you. I have a few rolls of Tri-X and some HP5 at the moment so I will start with these

mpirie said:

Maybe have a look at John Finch's Pictorial Planet website as a great resource for mixing various darkroom chemicals and the differences between them.

Mike

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Big +1 for John Finch!

koraks said:

Start with normal agitation first to establish a baseline. Then see if you want to do variations on the theme. You'll find (if you search this forum) that 'stand development' is a rather contentious topic.



With Rodinal I'd suggest overexposing by about a stop, but it depends on what kind of film you use. When I used Rodinal, I mostly shot Fomapan 100. That definitely could do with the extra stop of exposure.

Personally, I'd pick Pyrocat over Rodinal.

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I agree with this 100%

If you want to play around with "stand" development, do so only once you've established a good working relationship with Pyrocat (or ANY Pyro type developer) since these are notorious for misbehaving if agitation recommendations are not followed. Pyrocat HD is less prone to these issues than - say - PMK, but it is not immune to them. (Pyro developers typically require more frequent agitation, and more aggressive agitation than regular developers) I suspect you'll find that engaging in the "stand" technique is superfluous when using Pyrocat HD, which is known for it's acutance and edge effects, significantly amplifying the appearance of sharpness.

Most Pyro developers require 1/2 to 1 stop more exposure than what you'd typically give a negative in normal circumstances. I suggest bracketing exposure to determine a baseline.

Rodinal is inferior to the Pyro developers. But this is just my personal experience. Rodinal exaggerates grain characteristics, whereas Pyrocat HD masks grain due to the Pyro stain.

And for the OP, talk of effective speed is based on how you meter for exposure. There are many opinions, and different approaches can lead to identical results.

For example, I have done some testing and I set my meter on half box speed. There is a frequent experienced contributor here who is adamant and always sets box speed. I expect that he (assuming gender) is at least as good a printer as I am, I'd be willing to guess that his negatives and mine could well be very similar, because our metering approaches are a bit different.

Bobby Brewster said:

Thank you all for your encouragement and advice

@bags27 Thank you for the suggestion but I'm pretty sure you're right and I wouldn't be able to use them. I do have a supplier here available here in the UK, though, so that's sorted.

@MattKing Thank you. I wasn't aware about this speed business. I had watched some videos on youtube about stand developing Rodinal where he actually used FP4 at ISO 200 to good effect. I have always just used box speed in my development in the past and I'm not sure how to deal with this now. Should I decrease the speed if I use standard development times then? When you say slightly would you say around 1/3 - 1/2 stop ?

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No, you need to increase the amount of exposure received by the film.
You need to set the meter you use for a lower number.
If you have already exposed the film, you are too late to make the change.

And by the way, I strongly disagree with using stand or semi-stand development techniques generally. They are special purpose techniques, best used only in certain circumstances, and they give you negatives that are different from "ideal".

MattKing said:

And by the way, I strongly disagree with using stand or semi-stand development techniques generally. They are special purpose techniques, best used only in certain circumstances, and they give you negatives that are different from "ideal".

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I ruined plenty of film chasing the "Stand Dragon" years ago and after several carefully engineered tests I decided the technique introduced far more undesirables than benefits. Many reports on the Web suggest this is some kind of "cure-all" for bad negatives, and these reports are typically exaggerated, or they fail to report the negative aspects of the process.
Yes, plenty of people have worked out a way to do it that gives then their "best" negatives ("best" being subjective) with minimal risk of ruining their film, but as I said earlier, if you are using Pyrocat HD as your developer of choice, then adding the "stand" process to this is largely superfluous (and will introduce greater risk of ruining your negs: you've been warned).

For me, although I rarely do it, pyrocat stand works fine, but if I have a lot of film to process at once (because otherwise it's too costly) and I want spectacular results (who doesn't?), then it's Sandy King's recipe for divided pyrocat:

Solution A and B, both 1:10 at 75 degrees F. few drops of Photo-Flo in A

• Pre-soak the film in water for 3-5 minutes.
• 5 minutes for A and 5 for B
• 45-60 seconds agitations initially
• 10 seconds at minutes 4, 3, 2, and 1.

endless discussion of agitation and lots more good stuff here, which loops back to our site!
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-89702.html

Just to re-affirm that I'm not using Pyrocat but, as I mentioned I decided to go with Rodinal.

MattKing said:

No, you need to increase the amount of exposure received by the film.
You need to set the meter you use for a lower number.
If you have already exposed the film, you are too late to make the change.

And by the way, I strongly disagree with using stand or semi-stand development techniques generally. They are special purpose techniques, best used only in certain circumstances, and they give you negatives that are different from "ideal".

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Hi Matt. I understand the exposure. Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes and I misunderstood. I meant to ask how by much I should increase the exposure. Anyway, you've answered my question and this obviously agrees with the information given on the videos I mentioned. Re stand development, I have never tried it but thought it interesting. I might dip my toe in at some point but perhaps just get back in the swing of standard processing first.