Pyrocat? A good Developer to start with?

[MattKing]

Thread Title tweaked because "Developer Starter" is a thing.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I personally prefer pyrogallol-based PMK for HP5 instead of Pyrocat HD. It does something special with the edge effect. You can buy it numerous places, generally under the Photog Formulary label. Always wear nitrile gloves and eye protection. In other words, avoid skin contact. You can prevent inhalation exposure to the powder simply by buying premixed A&B liquid concentrate kits.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to Photrio!

Consider XTOL stock solution used repeatedly for multiple rolls, XTOL 1:1 as one shot, or replenished XTOL which is used for multiple rolls with a long lifetime and the most economical of the three. All are very forgivable, provide fine grain and great sharpness (acutamce).

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

If there were no Pyrocat-HD, I'd be using XTol exclusively, like I used to. XTol-R is great.

 

[Bobby Brewster]

Thank you all for your very thoughtful, detailed, and helpful replies. While I recognise that personal preferences matter, I am definitely tempted to give Pyrocat a go, particularly as I intend to scan my negatives and I'm probably looking to getting an initial lower contrast scan. Glad to note that there's mention above of it keeping highlight details well.

I see the Nick&Trick shop is in Kent but not sure if they only do mail order anyway. Is this the one you meant @Ian Grant Grant or is there another one with a shopfront?

 

[Ian Grant]

Thank you all for your very thoughtful, detailed, and helpful replies. While I recognise that personal preferences matter, I am definitely tempted to give Pyrocat a go, particularly as I intend to scan my negatives and I'm probably looking to getting an initial lower contrast scan. Glad to note that there's mention above of it keeping highlight details well.

I see the Nick&Trick shop is in Kent but not sure if they only do mail order anyway. Is this the one you meant @Ian Grant Grant or is there another one with a shopfront?

Nik & Trick have a shop., so you can pop in and see them, or they do offer mail order. This is who I was suggesting.

Ian

 

[Ian Grant]

If there were no Pyrocat-HD, I'd be using XTol exclusively, like I used to. XTol-R is great.

Ditto. I used Xtol as soon as it was available, always replenished. I only stopped using it because of moving abroad, then realising that Pyrocat HD was giving me superb results with all the films I use. I didn't have storage space for two 2.5 litre containers of Xtol.

Ian

 

[jim appleyard]

I'm glad to know you Brits are one up on us re: availability of P'Cat. It's very different here in the colonies; you have to shop a chemical supply house and homebrew or buy the kit at one of the larger camera stores (Adorama, BH, Freestyle, etc.). You can't even walk into any old Mom & Pop camera store and find D-76 anymore! Heck, there aren't even Mom & Pop cameras stores anymore!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thank you all for your very thoughtful, detailed, and helpful replies. While I recognise that personal preferences matter, I am definitely tempted to give Pyrocat a go, particularly as I intend to scan my negatives and I'm probably looking to getting an initial lower contrast scan. Glad to note that there's mention above of it keeping highlight details well.

I see the Nick&Trick shop is in Kent but not sure if they only do mail order anyway. Is this the one you meant @Ian Grant Grant or is there another one with a shopfront?

I find that a Pyrocat-HD negative has multi-purposes... It prints well in the darkroom via either gelatin silver or Alt., and it scans well.

 

[pentaxuser]

You can't even walk into any old Mom & Pop camera store and find D-76 anymore! Heck, there aren't even Mom & Pop cameras stores anymore!

You think that's bad. Over here in the U.K. we are lucky to find any Mom and Pops - never mind their stores

pentaxuser

 

[retina_restoration]

There are many advantages to choosing one of the Pyro type developers, most of which have been discussed already. The staining action of Pyrocat HD offers some "compensation" development and preserves highlight information beautifully, making for an easily scanned or printed negative. It's a very inexpensive developer to use, as it takes so very little of each part to make a working solution. There is the added bonus of extremely good shelf life; it can last for years if stored correctly (dark and cool) unlike a lot of other developers, many of which oxidize within weeks. That can be very useful if you're someone who may got for several weeks between developing sessions. Pyrocat HD is readily available - by mail order, anyway - and you can always make it from scratch. But be cautious if you choose the latter, as handling the raw ingredient presents health hazards if done carelessly. (Most folks opt to buy Pyrocat HD as a pre-mixed A and B stock kit, which is a good idea if you are new to it)

If there's any drawback to using Pyrocat HD (or any of the "Pyro" type developers, it's their handling risk: they contain either Pyrogallol or Pyrocatechin and both are fairly toxic chemicals that require respect and care in handling in the dry state. Once mixed into stock/working solutions, they do not pose great risks, as long as you're not completely ignoring all safe handling recommendations. That said, you should handle all developers with care - avoiding skin contact with any of them. Even a "benign" developing agent like Metol poses some health risks if you come in direct contact with it. Hydroquinone is even more of a health hazard, and that is a common ingredient in many developer formulas: it's a known carcinogen. As I say, you should handle all of your chemicals with respect and know what the risks are. If you understand how you need to handle a developer like Pyrocat HD, then there's no reason to be overly concerned about using it. It's an excellent developer that will deliver great results with any film you use. Some people consider it an "advanced" option, but there's no reason for a newcomer not to adopt it.

 

[GregY]

There are many advantages to choosing one of the Pyro type developers, most of which have been discussed already. The staining action of Pyrocat HD offers some "compensation" development and preserves highlight information beautifully, making for an easily scanned or printed negative. It's a very inexpensive developer to use, as it takes so very little of each part to make a working solution. There is the added bonus of extremely good shelf life; it can last for years if stored correctly (dark and cool) unlike a lot of other developers, many of which oxidize within weeks. That can be very useful if you're someone who may got for several weeks between developing sessions. Pyrocat HD is readily available - by mail order, anyway - and you can always make it from scratch. But be cautious if you choose the latter, as handling the raw ingredient presents health hazards if done carelessly. (Most folks opt to buy Pyrocat HD as a pre-mixed A and B stock kit, which is a good idea if you are new to it)

If there's any drawback to using Pyrocat HD (or any of the "Pyro" type developers, it's their handling risk: they contain either Pyrogallol or Pyrocatechin and both are fairly toxic chemicals that require respect and care in handling in the dry state. Once mixed into stock/working solutions, they do not pose great risks, as long as you're not completely ignoring all safe handling recommendations. That said, you should handle all developers with care - avoiding skin contact with any of them. Even a "benign" developing agent like Metol poses some health risks if you come in direct contact with it. Hydroquinone is even more of a health hazard, and that is a common ingredient in many developer formulas: it's a known carcinogen. As I say, you should handle all of your chemicals with respect and know what the risks are. If you understand how you need to handle a developer like Pyrocat HD, then there's no reason to be overly concerned about using it. It's an excellent developer that will deliver great results with any film you use. Some people consider it an "advanced" option, but there's no reason for a newcomer not to adopt it.

Thanks RR....a very thorough and articulate response.

 

[Bobby Brewster]

Thread Title tweaked because "Developer Starter" is a thing.

Oops. Please excuse my ignorance. Thank you

 

[Bobby Brewster]

Nik & Trick have a shop., so you can pop in and see them, or they do offer mail order. This is who I was suggesting.

Thank you. That’s good to know

 

[Bobby Brewster]

There are many advantages to choosing one of the Pyro type developers, most of which have been discussed already. The staining action of Pyrocat HD offers some "compensation" development and preserves highlight information beautifully, making for an easily scanned or printed negative. It's a very inexpensive developer to use, as it takes so very little of each part to make a working solution. There is the added bonus of extremely good shelf life; it can last for years if stored correctly (dark and cool) unlike a lot of other developers, many of which oxidize within weeks. That can be very useful if you're someone who may got for several weeks between developing sessions. Pyrocat HD is readily available - by mail order, anyway - and you can always make it from scratch. But be cautious if you choose the latter, as handling the raw ingredient presents health hazards if done carelessly. (Most folks opt to buy Pyrocat HD as a pre-mixed A and B stock kit, which is a good idea if you are new to it)

If there's any drawback to using Pyrocat HD (or any of the "Pyro" type developers, it's their handling risk: they contain either Pyrogallol or Pyrocatechin and both are fairly toxic chemicals that require respect and care in handling in the dry state. Once mixed into stock/working solutions, they do not pose great risks, as long as you're not completely ignoring all safe handling recommendations. That said, you should handle all developers with care - avoiding skin contact with any of them. Even a "benign" developing agent like Metol poses some health risks if you come in direct contact with it. Hydroquinone is even more of a health hazard, and that is a common ingredient in many developer formulas: it's a known carcinogen. As I say, you should handle all of your chemicals with respect and know what the risks are. If you understand how you need to handle a developer like Pyrocat HD, then there's no reason to be overly concerned about using it. It's an excellent developer that will deliver great results with any film you use. Some people consider it an "advanced" option, but there's no reason for a newcomer not to adopt it.

Thank you for this helpful information. I’m going to give it a go

 

[Sirius Glass]

If there were no Pyrocat-HD, I'd be using XTol exclusively, like I used to. XTol-R is great.

I have been using replenished XTOL exclusively for almost 20 years.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Bobby - pyro stain has a specific color, which tends to be brownish-yellow with Pyrocat, and yellow-green with PMK pyrogallol; but there are many variations to "pyro". Your scanning light source will not see this as pure neutral density, or the same way either our own eyes do, or printing paper itself, which has its own permutations VC versus old blue-sensitive graded paper.

Perhaps this subject has been discussed elsewhere on the forum. I don't know. To accurately reproduce the gradational highlight effect of a pyro stain, I often resort to blue light - for instance, viewing the negative over a lightbox through a medium blue filter, or generating a contrast mask from a pyro original through blue light exposure to the masking film. Just a tip how to fine tune or optimize the procedure, if you decide to go that far. It's not essential, but perhaps someone will want to experiment with blue light scanning, to bring out the full effect of the stain, just like graded paper would have seen it.

Most people now buy the convenient pre-mixed A&B kits, which alleviates most of the safety concerns. You still want to avoid any splash or skin contact.

 

[MattKing]

Oops. Please excuse my ignorance. Thank you

Not a problem at all!

 

[Bobby Brewster]

All right, I've done a bit of reading, and on reflection, I've decided to start off with Rodinal. It's pretty cheap, seems to last for years, and apparently gives a good result with lots of films and speeds. In addition, I'm sort of looking to see the grain; it's one of the reasons I'm going to be using film over digital in certain situations.

If I can't get on with it after a while, then I will consider again and probably go with Pyrocat HD, but I'm fairly sure Rodinal will do the job for me.

Thank you all for your help and advice

 

[Milpool]

All right, I've done a bit of reading, and on reflection, I've decided to start off with Rodinal. It's pretty cheap, seems to last for years, and apparently gives a good result with lots of films and speeds. In addition, I'm sort of looking to see the grain; it's one of the reasons I'm going to be using film over digital in certain situations.

If I can't get on with it after a while, then I will consider again and probably go with Pyrocat HD, but I'm fairly sure Rodinal will do the job for me.

Thank you all for your help and advice

Good idea.

 

[chuckroast]

All right, I've done a bit of reading, and on reflection, I've decided to start off with Rodinal. It's pretty cheap, seems to last for years, and apparently gives a good result with lots of films and speeds. In addition, I'm sort of looking to see the grain; it's one of the reasons I'm going to be using film over digital in certain situations.

If I can't get on with it after a while, then I will consider again and probably go with Pyrocat HD, but I'm fairly sure Rodinal will do the job for me.

Thank you all for your help and advice

I think all our pontifications here about developers and their variants has the unfortunate side effect of encouraging people to experiment wildly, perhaps before they are ready.

I spent most of the last 45 years using essentially only 3 developers - D-76, HC-110, and PMK Pyro - and then only one at a time. I needed to use one and only one for a long time to really understand how it worked before expanding my horizons. It has only been in the past several years that I've felt comfortable venturing off into mixing up my own concoctions, trying extended development schemes, and experimenting outside the usual guidelines. And even this was - in the words of Sandy King - "fraught with dangers". (As just one example, I found out the hard way just how much Double X hates high dilution development and how much better regular old D-76 1:1 with normal agitation and times works.)

All of which is to say, I applaud your picking one and sticking with it until mastered. We await your first images

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, while modern Rodinal has decent longevity, I wouldn't expect the sort of decades long life that the old stuff is/was famous for.
And don't forget to down-rate your film slightly from its ISO speed.

 

[bags27]

I very much doubt that they ship internationally, either, but just a shout out to Bostick & Sullivan, which supplies Pyrocat and a lot of other important chemicals.

Bostick & Sullivan

www.bostick-sullivan.com

 

[Bobby Brewster]

Thank you all for your encouragement and advice

@bags27 Thank you for the suggestion but I'm pretty sure you're right and I wouldn't be able to use them. I do have a supplier here available here in the UK, though, so that's sorted.

@MattKing Thank you. I wasn't aware about this speed business. I had watched some videos on youtube about stand developing Rodinal where he actually used FP4 at ISO 200 to good effect. I have always just used box speed in my development in the past and I'm not sure how to deal with this now. Should I decrease the speed if I use standard development times then? When you say slightly would you say around 1/3 - 1/2 stop ?

 

[mpirie]

Maybe have a look at John Finch's Pictorial Planet website as a great resource for mixing various darkroom chemicals and the differences between them.

Mike