Pyro questions

[Tom1956]

I've researched past threads on the subject of Pyro, and there are lots of them. But gleaning through these long threads to answer my few questions is tedious. So pardon me please for opening up still another internet thread. OK
My purpose in asking is to find some up-to-date ordering and usage questions. I will be using it on 8x10 X-Ray film. I'm guessing most of you will point me towards Pyrocat HD for starters.So where do I get some of this for a small-time user? It looks like you use it 1:1:100 or thereabouts. And I will be tray developing (for now). Trays don't hold 102 ounces of liquid. So that brings me to ask how much of the stock is required for 8x10? For instance, 1:1:100 = 1/4 to 1/4 to 25 ounces. But is a mere 1/4 ounce of each of the 2 parts enough to handle 80 square inches of film area?
Another question: How does Pyrocat come? All I have is a set of Ohause triple beams that most people use for dope. (I don't sell dope, I use the scales professionally). Will these scales do the job and allow some consistency if I have to use them to mix up the Pyrocat? Where do I buy some? I don't think I need these 5 liter kits. I started this thread because I'd like some info on this Pyrocat that is up-to-date for May 2013. Some of these threads are pretty old, and things change quickly these days. Thank you.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Your post is a bit confusing, the word pryo should be reserved for pygogallol exclusively and not for catechol. Then you go on to mention a catechol based developer. Does your post concern pyrogallol, or catechol or both?

The first thing you should consider is the toxicity of this pyrogallol, the LDlo (the minimum lethal dose) is only 25 gm per kg of body weight. It is readily absorbed through the skin in water solution. This is nasty stuff. The danger for the photo enthusiast is from repeated exposure to the dust while compounding a formula and contact with the developer itself. The use of a respirator when using the solid and nitrile gloves at all times is a must. If you insist on using a staining developer you might consider those based on catechol which are a bit safer. However the same safety precautions are required.

Catechol occurs as fine needles similar in appearence to hydroquinone.

 

[Tom1956]

Thank you GC Koch. Your opinion is respected. I won't take issue with your safety warnings; I use nasty substances every day in my profession. Instead I prefer to go along with your direction and ask further about the catechol materials as you've spoken of. Pyro, pyrogallol, pyrocatechin, and catechol all sound like they're in the same family of staining, compensating developers which I seek. I'm going to need that kind of developer action on this X-Ray film, to be sure. If you or anyone else might point the way on this, I'm willing to go that way.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

If you haven't read the following article you may find it useful. http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.html

 

[Tom1956]

Thank you for the link. Please consider me someone on information overload. I've been rather well hoping someone can just point me as to where-to-buy, and what to buy. I'm going to put in my first order on cheapo x-ray film tomorrow, and I'd like to order some kind of staining/compensating developer so they both arrive within a couple days of each other so I can get busy. And I'm not willing to go the high-dilution Rodinal route. I have no love for Rodinal, no matter how many fans the stuff has. Dektol and D-76 are not going to work for this purpose at any dilution. I have no intention of standing in the dark rocking a tray for an hour for one piece of film.

 

[dpurdy]

Not sure where you are but the photographers formulary sells the pyrocat hd in a pre mixed kit. It is very easy. Your scales are pretty good scales, I use the same brand. dope sellers often use shell loading scales. Not as good. I went ahead and bought the chemicals to make my own mix, which is less expensive. Though the kits aren't that expensive. You will find what you need and the photographers formulary.
Dennis

 

[pgomena]

Pyrocat-HD is an excellent "starter" staining developer choice. Once you start with it, you may never change course.

Buy pyrocat-HD in glycol from the Photographer's Formulary. It will keep indefinitely. 1:1:100 dilution = 10ml +10ml/liter of water. Very economical. You can easily develop two sheets of 8x10" film in a liter, and if you're skilled at tray developing, probably 4 sheets, although I'd increase the volume to 1500ml just so you have plenty of developer in the tray. It's quite potent even at a 1:1:100 dilution.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Check with Photographer's Formulary I believe they sell kits of chemicals for various staining developers. Everything is pre-measured for you. Just add the chemicals to water as instructed.

http://stores.photoformulary.com/StoreFront.bok

 

[Tom1956]

Is this the stuff? Thanks, fellows.
http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-101/Pyrocat-dsh-Hd/Detail.bok

 

[Rick A]

Is this the stuff? Thanks, fellows.
http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-101/Pyrocat-dsh-Hd/Detail.bok

Yes, thats the developer you want. I recommend one mixed in glycol, it has longer shelf life for those who dont use alot of film. You also want to buy two childrens medicine dose syringes for measuring the stuff, and mark them 'A' and 'B' and never confuse them. You never want to cross contaminate the solutions as it will ruin them. As stated earlier, 10ml A plus 10ml B per one liter water as a starting point for developing. Also, check out this site:
http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/index.html

 

[Tom1956]

Yes, thats the developer you want. I recommend one mixed in glycol, it has longer shelf life for those who dont use alot of film. You also want to buy two childrens medicine dose syringes for measuring the stuff, and mark them 'A' and 'B' and never confuse them. You never want to cross contaminate the solutions as it will ruin them. As stated earlier, 10ml A plus 10ml B per one liter water as a starting point for developing. Also, check out this site:
http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/index.html

So this means I should order the liquid version?

 

[ataim]

I would. Mixing dry Catechol is just an extra potential hazard for nothing, plus the extra hassle of mixing the formula from dry chemicals anyway.

and the cost of the liquid is only fifteen bucks, that alone is worth the hassle of mixing your own.

 

[Klainmeister]

You can also get it from Bostick and Sullivan. I started using PMK about 10 years ago, then found Pyrocat about 4 years ago and have never looked back. I have yet to find a single film that doesn't print very well with this developer. Not ideal for scanning (wrong forum anyhow), but prints beautifully under VC head.

 

[Ian Grant]

You can also get it from Bostick and Sullivan. I started using PMK about 10 years ago, then found Pyrocat about 4 years ago and have never looked back. I have yet to find a single film that doesn't print very well with this developer. Not ideal for scanning (wrong forum anyhow), but prints beautifully under VC head.

In my experience Pyrocat HD negatives scan just as well as those developed using Xtol & Rodinal, however more importantly they print easily in the darkroom with superb results. I'll echo that is great with every film I've used it with.

Ian

 

[Klainmeister]

Maybe it's my technique, but I tend to get more grain with it scanning than XTOL. That being said, I don't really care because I prefer darkroom printing 10:1. Films that have done great with Pyrocat:

Tmax 100 and 400
Neopan 100 400 1600
Ilford Pan F 50, Fp4 and Hp5
Fomapan 100, 200 (400 is alright)

The best combo, in my opinion has been the Fuji series. The Neopan stuff is a perfect fit.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

In the unblinkeye article I love Gordon Hutchings' wonderful circular reasoning that pyro developers work because we have them. Which is somewhat akin to saying that unicorns exist because we have a word for them. I'm not making any judgements on the use of these developers just the fallacious reasoning.

 

[Tom1956]

In the unblinkeye article I love Gordon Hutchings' wonderful circular reasoning that pyro developers work because we have them. Which is somewhat akin to saying that unicorns exist because we have a word for them. I'm not making any judgements on the use of these developers just the fallacious reasoning.

I'm not sure I read you. Are you saying you think of pyro developers as snake oil?

 

[Klainmeister]

I don't make any crazy claims either. I just know from my own darkroom that since I switched over, the images appear sharper and it's been easier to print with my VC papers. This could just as easily correlate to more experience and better equipment, but I think that if it ain't broke don't fix it!

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I'm not sure I read you. Are you saying you think of pyro developers as snake oil?

I thought I made clear that I was only talking about his statement.

 

[Tom1956]

I thought I made clear that I was only talking about his statement.

Sorry. Got a case of brain block today. Been running on 7 cylinders all day. Thanks.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I don't make any crazy claims either. I just know from my own darkroom that since I switched over, the images appear sharper and it's been easier to print with my VC papers.

Do you see any advantage with graded papers rather than VC ones?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Sorry. Got a case of brain block today. Been running on 7 cylinders all day. Thanks.

No problem, have had days like that myself.

 

[Klainmeister]

Do you see any advantage with graded papers rather than VC ones?

Having only printed with graded papers very briefly, I couldn't really make any sort of observation other than they printed fine, as well with my XTOL negatives. I just seem to get very consistent results with developing with Pyrocat (even if I mess up a bit time or temp wise) and using my current stash of VC papers. Been very easy to judge the right contrast and very easy to control the shadows as well as the highlights. But like I said, I don't necessarily contribute this as a special property of the developer, others, I'm sure, can do the same. But for my workflow, I find it easy to use, economical, and very consistent. Nothing to complain about there.

 

[Rick A]

Pyro developers were first used with graded papers, as there were no VC papers at the time, so yes it shines with graded.My personal experience is with both VC and graded, I have no preference as to which I choose for a negative other than finish of the paper and surface sheen, and warm vs neutral tone paper. I decide which developer based on how the negative was exposed, options are D-76, Rodinal, and PMK Pyro these days, used to use Pcat-HD.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

If you haven't read the following article you may find it useful. http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.html

This the best definitive article on staining developers I have read.