Puzzling over new Kodak C-41 packaging

[Rolfe Tessem]

For the past several years, I've purchased the Kodak Flexicolor C41 chemistry in the SM packaging, which was designed for small tank use in non-replentished situations, such as in the Jobos. When I placed my last order, PDI Supply in Rochester informed me that the old packaging had been discontinued and that I now needed to buy developer replentisher and starter and mix it myself. So far, so good. However, the document furnished by PDI doesn't really match what I have, which is a 5 liter box of developer replentisher and a 1.2 liter bottle of developer starter. The bottle of part A in the 5 liter box is 400ml. Here is that chart in the Kodak document that has me scratching my head. Any assistance appreciated. What I would like to do is mix the entire 5 liter A,B,C at one time.

 

[Arctic amateur]

EDITED: misread the table, my ratio was incorrect

Assuming that the chart is correct for the concentrates you have, this is a straightforward scaling problem. To make exactly 5 liters you multiply the values in the bottom row with the ratio 5/6.3, or 0.794.

Part A: 305 ml Part B: 85 ml Part C: 43 ml Starter: 150 ml, and of course water to make up 5 l.

Disclaimer: I've never used these chemicals, so I don't know if mixing order matters. There are also several versions of the Flexicolor developer, do the labels on your bottles match the chart heading?

 

[MattKing]

When you say "5 litre box of developer replenisher" do I assume correctly that you mean a box to make 5 litres of developer replenisher?

With respect to Arctic amateur's post, in principle it seems correct, but I don't think the ratio he/she uses is correct.

I think 5.0 is the correct numerator for the ratio, but the correct denominator would be the sum of 5.73 + 0.384 + 0.107 + 0.054 + 0.189 = 6.41.
The ratio is 0.780.
I think .

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Don't make it overly complicated.

Take the top line (To make 1 litre) and multiply everything by 5

Water 883 ml x 5 = 4415 ml

Part A 61 ml x 5 = 305 ml

Part B 17 ml x 5 = 85 ml

Part C 8.5 ml x 5 = 42.5 ml

Starter 30 ml x 5 = 150 ml


TOTAL 5000 ml

To make 5 liters, you won't use all the chemicals up. Note the 400 ml of Part A is enough to make 400/61 = 6.6 liters of developer

 

[Rolfe Tessem]

To clarify, the developer replentisher box is marked 5 liters, but yes, if I scale it to use the whole kit I get the 6.6 liters of developer.

I'm just checking to make sure others think this is the proper way of interpreting the chart.

Thanks,

Rolfe

 

[Prof_Pixel]

As a former Eastman Kodak Photo Engineer, that certainly is how I read the instructions!

Fred

 

[mnemosyne]

The Kodak Flexicolor and Ektacolor kits I have seen here in Europe normally have mixing instructions for developer replenisher and tank solution (replenisher + starter) printed on the side of the box (and on the individual bottles). If you want to mix the whole 5 liters at once, simply follow the instructions printed on the box. Forget the document shown, I don't think it is the correct mixing information for your kit.

 

[Rolfe Tessem]

The developer replenisher box simply says A+B+C plus water to make 5 liters. It makes no mention of how to add developer starter if you want to make fresh developer solution...

Rolfe

 

[MattKing]

Don't make it overly complicated.

Take the top line (To make 1 litre) and multiply everything by 5

Water 883 ml x 5 = 4415 ml

Part A 61 ml x 5 = 305 ml

Part B 17 ml x 5 = 85 ml

Part C 8.5 ml x 5 = 42.5 ml

Starter 30 ml x 5 = 150 ml


TOTAL 5000 ml

To make 5 liters, you won't use all the chemicals up. Note the 400 ml of Part A is enough to make 400/61 = 6.6 liters of developer

I totally agree - why did I miss that line of the chart?
I would just be concerned about whether it is the right chart.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Although the kit is called '5 liters', it's actually a 6.6 liter kit if you are making working strength developer; it's a 5 liter kit if mixed to use as a replenisher. People with minilabs use the volume of working strength developer needed for their machine size. The leftover chemicals are used as a replenisher as they process film.


When you mix up 5 liters, you will have chemicals leftover to use as a replenisher - not a bad idea at all.

 

[Rolfe Tessem]

As a former Eastman Kodak Photo Engineer, that certainly is how I read the instructions!

Fred

Fred, thanks for the sanity check .

PDI Supply gave me the name of Dominick Vacco at Kodak, who supposedly authored the document in question, but he is not returning phone calls or email. In fairness, it is possible he is on vacation...

 

[Arctic amateur]

MattKing is right. I misread water volume as total volume. I've edited my post.

 

[bvy]

This is the exact same kit I use, and I've mixed several of these.

Mix the developer/replenisher as indicated to make 5 liters. Add to that a mixture of 197ml of starter and 1356ml of water to make ~6.5 liters of working solution developer (these exact amounts aren't given on the packaging, but the proportions are the same).

You'll use all of the developer/replenisher parts A, B and C. You'll have starter left over.

 

[Rolfe Tessem]

This is the exact same kit I use, and I've mixed several of these.

Mix the developer/replenisher as indicated to make 5 liters. Add to that a mixture of 197ml of starter and 1356ml of water to make ~6.5 liters of working solution developer (these exact amounts aren't given on the packaging, but the proportions are the same).

You'll use all of the developer/replenisher parts A, B and C. You'll have starter left over.

Thank you, and thanks to all who responded...this is exactly the information I was looking for, and puts an end to my head scratching .

I just wish someone at Kodak, perhaps the elusive Dominick Vacco, could revise his document to at least acknowledge or clarify the mixing instructions for those who are mixing up fresh batches of developer. After all, this is the official Kodak "replacement" for the discontinued SM packaging that was so much more convenient.

The new package actually consists of four five liter boxes of developer replenisher, which it turns out actually makes 26 liters of developer, so I'll be hard pressed to use that up in the next year, but I'll give it my best shot, or shots...

Rolfe

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Thank you, and thanks to all who responded...this is exactly the information I was looking for, and puts an end to my head scratching .
The new package actually consists of four five liter boxes of developer replenisher, which it turns out actually makes 26 liters of developer, so I'll be hard pressed to use that up in the next year, but I'll give it my best shot, or shots...

Rolfe

It actually mixes up 6.6 liters of working strength developer - NOT 26 liters. (Of course, you'll have lots of STARTER left over because the 1.2 liters you have could make 40 liters of working strength developer.)

 

[bvy]

It actually mixes up 6.6 liters of working strength developer - NOT 26 liters. (Of course, you'll have lots of STARTER left over because the 1.2 liters you have could make 40 liters of working strength developer.)

The single packages make five liters. He's saying he has four of the five-liter packages. Hence the 26 liters (6.5 times four).

 

[Prof_Pixel]

The single packages make five liters. He's saying he has four of the five-liter packages. Hence the 26 liters (6.5 times four).

He said: "what I have, which is a 5 liter box of developer replentisher and a 1.2 liter bottle of developer starter"

 

[bvy]

I was looking at this which is what you quoted.

The new package actually consists of four five liter boxes of developer replenisher, which it turns out actually makes 26 liters of developer,

 

[Rolfe Tessem]

The new Kodak packaging is indeed four five liter boxes -- in total they'll make 26 liters, 6.5 per five liter box of replenisher.

To follow up, I did hear from Dominick Vacco of Kodak Alaris today, both by email and by phone. He basically clarified what has already been discussed here -- following the ratios gives 6.5 liters per five liter pack of replenisher. He did say that Kodak has recently added better preservatives to part C, and suggested that for maximum longevity, it would be better to mix up less than the whole five liters package at once. I do store the working solutions in one liter glass bottles, so we'll see which method is better. I can probably go through 5 liters in a month to month and a half. Dominick also mentioned that PDI Supply had given me the document intended for minilab use and that there was a different one for rotary processing.

For others benefit, here is the document he furnished...

 

[MattKing]

Rolfe:
Perhaps you could start a new thread with a title like: "Flexicolour Chemicals for Rotary Processing - December 2016" and include this post.