PROVIA 400X: THE MOST EXPENSIVE 'CHROME EMULSION EVER??

[Aurelien]

If you are seated : in France , Fujifilm France sells Provia 400X at 105 euros the propack of 5 120rolls. And for me, dealer, they propose a discount of 15% . I reply to them that I will continue to buy to foreign partners, and I'll keep selling it under 40 euros the pack...

I think that Fuji itself is killing their products !

 

[lhalcong]

So what makes this Provia 400X so special over the 100F ? I haven't shot either one of them, only Velvia.

 

[Roger Cole]

Mainly, it's two stops faster.

That makes a HUGE difference, a lot of the time. I found myself at an outdoor outing trying to shoot photos in a shaded picnic area and thought I had brought Provia 400X but only had E100G. 1/8th to 1/15th wide open - not good handheld. I didn't bring flash either since I planned to be outdoors with 400 film.

It's also rather lower contrast and saturation and often, to me anyway, looks more natural than Provia 100F. But if you like Velvia and it suits your subjects and style, you'd probably like 100F less and 400X even less.

 

[Hatchetman]

I think that Fuji itself is killing their products !

This I agree with. Are they doing it on purpose, or are they just that dumb? Or are the economics that bad? The whole situation doesn't make sense to me. Velvia 50 is now $12 a roll? That's crazy.

 

[Aurelien]

I think we have to consider Fuji in Japan, the producer, and the subsidiaries in the world, that are independant, and they decide of the price.
I don't think Fuji Japan wants to kill their products... but I think it's true for some of the subsidiaries, especially Fujifilm France.

What is really curious, is the number of products that are / were produced, but never exported outside Japan... this is no sense !

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

It's not Fuji that is killing the film, but the retailers! This has been known for a long time now and is commonplace. The wholesale price is close to $20, a reasonable addition might be $5.00 on top of that, but no. How do you explain an additional $23 on top of getting it in for $20 at the retail end?

 

[RattyMouse]

I dont mean to sound stupid, but what about Sensia? Last time I was in the film store, I saw loads of Sensia (cant recall that ISO value). Is this film still in production or is it old stock? I thought Provia was the last transparency film left but now I'm confused.

How does Sensia compare to Provia? I never shot this film.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

In one of very few comparisons I will make, Sensia 100 was a lot like Kodachrome with a naturally flavoured palette tied to an agreeable contrast. You could swing it from people to landscape to night to sunset/sunrise and it would deliver. I used it for my overseas travel to Norfolk Island in the South Pacific in 1994 and again in 1997, but then dropped it off in favour of Velvia. Sensia has no relationship to Provia. There is no sign of Sensia here in Australia but then I'm not game to ask what's stuffed in the far back of dealer fridges, simply because I no longer go to retail dealers.

 

[MattKing]

It's not Fuji that is killing the film, but the retailers! This has been known for a long time now and is commonplace. The wholesale price is close to $20, a reasonable addition might be $5.00 on top of that, but no. How do you explain an additional $23 on top of getting it in for $20 at the retail end?

A 20% margin (aka a 25% markup) is a great way to go out of a retail business quick unless you have very quick turnover.

B & H can probably do it. Most smaller stores probably cannot.

A $20 wholesale cost is the problem.

 

[Dr Croubie]

A 20% margin (aka a 25% markup) is a great way to go out of a retail business quick unless you have very quick turnover.

B & H can probably do it. Most smaller stores probably cannot.

A $20 wholesale cost is the problem.

I think I've mentioned it before, but my local lab used to buy his Velvia from the fuji dealer, they wanted $20/roll of 135-36 *Wholesale*.
He now buys it over the internet like the rest of us, pays $10 a roll and re-sells it for $15. Of course, I just buy it over the net and skip the middleman, but the local lab is very useful when I need something and realise the freezer is empty (which, actually, is fairly often, so he still gets good business out of me).

I just checked Japanexposures, they've got Provia 400X for $16/135-36 in packs of 5 or 20, I've never bought from them so I don't know how cheap is their shipping.

 

[Roger Cole]

I dont mean to sound stupid, but what about Sensia? Last time I was in the film store, I saw loads of Sensia (cant recall that ISO value). Is this film still in production or is it old stock? I thought Provia was the last transparency film left but now I'm confused.

How does Sensia compare to Provia? I never shot this film.

I wish it were still available here but Sensia has been discontinued for a long time. What you were seeing is remaining stock. My favorite E6 film was Astia. Lovely stuff - long gone. So's Sensia. All that's left new is Velvia (in two speeds) and Provia 100. The 400x is also just remaining stock.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

A 20% margin (aka a 25% markup) is a great way to go out of a retail business quick unless you have very quick turnover.

B & H can probably do it. Most smaller stores probably cannot.

A $20 wholesale cost is the problem.

Well a $20 wholesale price is common on myriad small photographic products in retail, it is not restricted to film. I think the wholesale price on cable releases must be something like $45; most cost more than $80 to $90 here, which is quite extravagant for something made in China...

 

[MattKing]

Well a $20 wholesale price is common on myriad small photographic products in retail, it is not restricted to film. I think the wholesale price on cable releases must be something like $45; most cost more than $80 to $90 here, which is quite extravagant for something made in China...

I'm not necessarily saying that the importers/distributors are wrong charging the retailers $20.00, if their costs are also high. It is quite likely though that their costs per unit are lower than the retailers' costs, as they are likely to have less need for inventory, their rents would be lower, their staffing costs would be lower, etc. - all of which lead to less of a need for markup.

 

[Prest_400]

Well a $20 wholesale price is common on myriad small photographic products in retail, it is not restricted to film. I think the wholesale price on cable releases must be something like $45; most cost more than $80 to $90 here, which is quite extravagant for something made in China...

Whoa! There was a German company that made and sold their cable releases. They had numerous models and for 20€ you got a quite good 50cm release.

I haven't analysed this but TIP instant film seems to be +- at the same price around. I haven't looked outside Europe but here it's about 20€, a pro shop added 3€ more for it. That for PX680 600 film. So TIP and the retailers sell at the same price.

Being a huge corporation that is Fuji, with the small division of film. I don't know if they could (to put it better: want) to fix a price for each of the film product.
As of "wanting to kill film"; Henning Serger posted something about a viable market for reversal S8 & 16mm just that it was rather small. It is fullfilled by the small companies who respool the film. Perhaps it's not of fuji's interest to buy new machinery, but how about partnering with one of these companies and put their name into the product?
Well, or having discontinued all MP film, perhaps they want to forget all kinds of MP.

 

[thefizz]

The Fuji distributor in Ireland charges ridiculously high prices for film. I get my stock from a distributor in mainland Europe for much less even including carriage.

http://www.thephotoshop.ie/index.php?route=product/category&path=64_80_82

.

 

[SMBooth]

Welcome to Australia. You cannot pay people top dollar to work behind a counter and then charge only minimum markup on the goods your selling. High wages means high cost of goods, cannot have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Still no justification for $22.95 or so "mark-up" on a single roll of film. It is gouging.
Got a 5-pack of 400X for $86.90 online so I'm happy with my cake and will eat it too.

 

[benjiboy]

Still no justification for $22.95 or so "mark-up" on a single roll of film. It is gouging.
Got a 5-pack of 400X for $86.90 online so I'm happy with my cake and will eat it too.

It's the capitalist principal, buy as cheap as you can, and sell at the biggest profit you can, most of Western civilization is based on it, anyway Fuji has already or is stopping making Provia 400X, so there won't be a price to complain about, but personally I would rather have the option of paying through the nose for it if I wish, and the company still produce it

 

[clayne]

The fact of the matter is this:

If it is significantly cheaper for the end user to order the film in smaller bulk quantities from Freestyle (including shipping) than it is to buy the film from a local Photographic shop, its not because FS is undercutting your local shop but because your local shop is completely overpricing all of it. We're not just talking 25cents a roll here either. 100% markups are never sane.

 

[MattKing]

The fact of the matter is this:

If it is significantly cheaper for the end user to order the film in smaller bulk quantities from Freestyle (including shipping) than it is to buy the film from a local Photographic shop, its not because FS is undercutting your local shop but because your local shop is completely overpricing all of it. We're not just talking 25cents a roll here either. 100% markups are never sane.

This makes total sense for stores that have inventory that "turns over" quickly.

But if the film is going to sit on the store's shelf for 6 months, most small businesses cannot afford the carrying charges on the money they borrow to buy it unless their margins are that high.

And of course, if their prices are high, they are practically guaranteeing that the film will sit on their shelves.

So many of the stores that do continue to stock film are doing so more as a "service" than in the interests of maintaining a healthy market.

It is an extremely difficult "Catch 22" that many small photographic businesses find themselves in.

 

[clayne]

Well looks like their supply is high and demand is low based on their pricing themselves out of the market. Next logical step is to lower the price to reasonable levels. This isn't new for AUS/NZ - they've had film prices jacked sky high for years now.

 

[benjiboy]

Well looks like their supply is high and demand is low based on their pricing themselves out of the market. Next logical step is to lower the price to reasonable levels. This isn't new for AUS/NZ - they've had film prices jacked sky high for years now.

The point is they have stopped making it because they don't want to be in the market.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Who...stopped making what, and "not wanting to be in the market"!? There may be a much lower demand in the market for 400X, but Fujifilm, the busienss, is not going anywhere from the market that we can see. Retailers sit back and scratch their balls and wonder why shoppers don't come through their door. The reason has been repeated umpteen times in the print media: "the prices are too high", "gouging", "they quote one price then jack it up when you come in", etc., etc.

 

[Roger Cole]

Fuji discontinued Provia 400X. The stuff you can buy now is remaining stock.

 

[benjiboy]

Who...stopped making what, and "not wanting to be in the market"!? There may be a much lower demand in the market for 400X, but Fujifilm, the busienss, is not going anywhere from the market that we can see. Retailers sit back and scratch their balls and wonder why shoppers don't come through their door. The reason has been repeated umpteen times in the print media: "the prices are too high", "gouging", "they quote one price then jack it up when you come in", etc., etc.

The Fuji corporation have stopped manufacturing Fuji Provia 400X so you will soon have nothing to complain about.