Project help -- Fine Art 35mm contact prints

EddyB · Feb 9, 2021

Hello!

I'm currently developing a project with a view to putting on an exhibition in the new arts centre opening near my house. It looks like it's going to be a wonderful, creative space and after speaking to their main organiser I can say with confidence that so long as the quality of the work is high they would be more that happy to back me. However before I make any bold time/paper commitments I could do with some help troubleshooting the whole thing.

The idea goes a little something like this -- I’m going to wander the streets of my town snapping various details, moments and innocuous scenes on 35mm B&W (as I’ve done for years anyway), then make individuated contact prints, on fibre paper, with all the care, attention, burning, dodging, split-grading and toning of a fine art print. The teeny tiny results would then be mounted individually and displayed in oversized frames, inviting people to smile, take a closer look at my little town (through magnifying glasses, probably) and maybe even have a thought or two about the value of attention.

I’m still very much in the R&D stages so any pointers, ideas, or even warnings would be much appreciated. I have some dark-time booked in for the end of this week to mess around, so feel free to try and influence that messing.

Many thanks,

Ed.

Nitroplait · Feb 9, 2021

I like the idea, but my first thought was concern regarding the close audience interaction with your small images and magnifying glass. Hopefully we will soon be post-pandemic, but who knows what the new normal will be like.

removed account4 · Feb 9, 2021

I love this idea! It is extremely hard to burn and dodge something the size of 35mm.
have fun with your project!
John

tezzasmall · Feb 9, 2021

I do have reservations about using contact prints of 35mm negs - just because they are very small. Is there any reason why the prints have to be this small?

Have you thought about a slightly larger size, of maybe postcard format? They'd still be relatively small but would be much easier for the visitors to view them safely.

And out of interest, which part of the UK are you in, for if close enough, I'd love to visit when it's all up and running.?

Whatever happens, good luck with the project.

Terry S

Alan9940 · Feb 9, 2021

Great idea! I don't know that a magnifying glass is necessary. Many years ago, I took a workshop where one of the instructors contact printed 35mm and mounted them onto fairly large matts around 9x12". As I remember it, the sheer size of the matts alone invited you to move in for a close look. Good luck with the project!

bsdunek · Feb 9, 2021

I suppose an exhibition of my Minox contact prints is possible. Just kidding. I like "Miniatures", although I tend more to 4X6 in larger frames. Still, an interesting idea to try 35mm.

bdial · Feb 9, 2021

This is something that I've been planning to try too. I bought a Leica contact printer for holding the film and paper. They are not-so-uncommon on Ebay for not a lot of money.
I would aim for negs that don't need much in the way of burning or dodging. That is perhaps easier said than done, but accurately burning or dodging won't be so easy either.

grain elevator · Feb 9, 2021

I'd be annoyed if I had to view interesting photographs in an uncomfortably tiny format. I suggest moving up to some medium format at least. The message will still get through.

Maris · Feb 9, 2021

Two alternatives for typically lazy art gallery audiences:

Enlarge a set of 36 negatives via a 8x10 enlarger into a giant "contact sheet". The full size print is big enough to have presence on the gallery wall and the individual pictures are easily eye-readable.

Make black and white positives via a reversal process, cut and mount individual frames, and show them via a slide projector controlled by an intervalometer. This tends to hold an audience on the spot until they have seen the full set.

I tried the tiny picture with magnifying glass method in a Brisbane gallery years ago. Basically didn't work.

Bill Burk · Feb 9, 2021

How about reductions? I had some fun making pictures for a locket. You run into different challenges. One was finding pictures that are suitably brilliant and sharp with shapes to fit the jewelry.

One picture of my dog was too big and yet to show the part of the picture I wanted I had to include a bit of the edge of the frame

Craig75 · Feb 9, 2021

Nice idea. I like it.

Dodging and burning that size is going to be nigh impossible id have thought.

Best ways i can think of are making inkjet masks for each negative or making 7x5 prints with all the enlarger work then photographing the prints back onto 35mm film.

I suppose you could selectively bleach/ reducers / intensifers on the negative with tiny brushes under magnifying glass and/or paint on negative to dodge or make hand made masks. That all sounds serious pain though.

MattKing · Feb 9, 2021

A fun and interesting idea.
I wouldn't plan on a lot of burning and dodging, but you probably won't need or want to do that anyways.
The small prints will need to be strong in their general graphic power. Images that depend for their success on the viewer being able to discern fine gradations of tonal differences in the shadows and highlights are not the ones to choose for the project.
If you are like me, you have some contact proof sheets that have lots of images that look good as is, and lots that don't impress at all until you employ lots of magnification.
You will want to choose from the first group.

Mike Lopez · Feb 10, 2021

I do this all the time. Two bits of advice:

1. Use a slow speed paper that is meant for contact prints, if possible. Enlarging papers are relatively fast and you may have to be rather deft to get the results you want, particularly if your negatives require dodging and/or burning.

2. Do not use a light source with an overly high wattage. Or be sure to put several feet of distance between your light source and your negative. Why? See #1.

Good luck. You'll have fun with this.

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

Mike Lopez said:
I do this all the time. Two bits of advice:

1. Use a slow speed paper that is meant for contact prints, if possible. Enlarging papers are relatively fast and you may have to be rather deft to get the results you want, particularly if your negatives require dodging and/or burning.

2. Do not use a light source with an overly high wattage. Or be sure to put several feet of distance between your light source and your negative. Why? See #1.

Good luck. You'll have fun with this.

I was planning to just stop down the lens to give myself some breathing room, any reason not to?

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

MattKing said:
A fun and interesting idea.
I wouldn't plan on a lot of burning and dodging, but you probably won't need or want to do that anyways.
The small prints will need to be strong in their general graphic power. Images that depend for their success on the viewer being able to discern fine gradations of tonal differences in the shadows and highlights are not the ones to choose for the project.
If you are like me, you have some contact proof sheets that have lots of images that look good as is, and lots that don't impress at all until you employ lots of magnification.
You will want to choose from the first group.

Agreed. I'm sort of thinking in little pictures now, when I go out shooting.

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

Craig75 said:
Nice idea. I like it.

Dodging and burning that size is going to be nigh impossible id have thought.

Best ways i can think of are making inkjet masks for each negative or making 7x5 prints with all the enlarger work then photographing the prints back onto 35mm film.

I suppose you could selectively bleach/ reducers / intensifers on the negative with tiny brushes under magnifying glass and/or paint on negative to dodge or make hand made masks. That all sounds serious pain though.

Do you mean make final prints and then photograph them?

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

Bill Burk said:
How about reductions? I had some fun making pictures for a locket. You run into different challenges. One was finding pictures that are suitably brilliant and sharp with shapes to fit the jewelry.

One picture of my dog was too big and yet to show the part of the picture I wanted I had to include a bit of the edge of the frame

This sounds lovely. How do you go about doing reductions? I've poked about that dark ally on here but never worked it out..

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

Maris said:
Two alternatives for typically lazy art gallery audiences:

Enlarge a set of 36 negatives via a 8x10 enlarger into a giant "contact sheet". The full size print is big enough to have presence on the gallery wall and the individual pictures are easily eye-readable.

Make black and white positives via a reversal process, cut and mount individual frames, and show them via a slide projector controlled by an intervalometer. This tends to hold an audience on the spot until they have seen the full set.

I tried the tiny picture with magnifying glass method in a Brisbane gallery years ago. Basically didn't work.

Ahh I was thinking how to give people the best of both experiences.. I like the projector idea

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

grain elevator said:
I'd be annoyed if I had to view interesting photographs in an uncomfortably tiny format. I suggest moving up to some medium format at least. The message will still get through.

yeaah I was planning to mix it up with a bit of MF

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

bdial said:
This is something that I've been planning to try too. I bought a Leica contact printer for holding the film and paper. They are not-so-uncommon on Ebay for not a lot of money.
I would aim for negs that don't need much in the way of burning or dodging. That is perhaps easier said than done, but accurately burning or dodging won't be so easy either.

Yes the consensus seems to be that any time/light sensitive manipulations will be the hardest part

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

bsdunek said:
I suppose an exhibition of my Minox contact prints is possible. Just kidding. I like "Miniatures", although I tend more to 4X6 in larger frames. Still, an interesting idea to try 35mm.

hahaa.. had to look up that neg format, now THAT would be taking it to far(?)

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

michael_r said:
+1 it will definitely make people smile.

The best technique I can think of for this would be to carefully make "selective masks" a la Alan Ross (pencil shading, dye shading, contour layers etc.) for burning and dodging or even flashing, rather than doing these things by hand during the print exposure. If you wanted to get significantly more complicated you could even make silver masks.

During printing, for any manual manipulation my suggestion would be to go for long print exposure times, and with the enlarger head (or other light source) high up enough that you can get your head underneath and very close to the print. If you can obtain one of those hands-free magnifiers on a swing arm that would be very helpful. Or maybe just buy some of those cheap reading glasses at the drugstore. Anything that allows you to better see what you're doing is good. These would be very useful for making the selective masks I referred to above. Manual manipulation/controls during the print exposure will be very difficult if they are at all intricate or substantial. Even with tiny burning/dodging cards/tools you will need steady hands for fine control. This might be mitigated somewhat by the fact with prints that small you can basically have your arms and hands resting on the enlarger baseboard.

Good luck!

I've C&P'd this, thanks a lot..

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

Alan9940 said:
Great idea! I don't know that a magnifying glass is necessary. Many years ago, I took a workshop where one of the instructors contact printed 35mm and mounted them onto fairly large matts around 9x12". As I remember it, the sheer size of the matts alone invited you to move in for a close look. Good luck with the project!

This is very encouraging, thanks!

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

tezzasmall said:
I do have reservations about using contact prints of 35mm negs - just because they are very small. Is there any reason why the prints have to be this small?

Have you thought about a slightly larger size, of maybe postcard format? They'd still be relatively small but would be much easier for the visitors to view them safely.

And out of interest, which part of the UK are you in, for if close enough, I'd love to visit when it's all up and running.?

Whatever happens, good luck with the project.

Terry S

Many thanks Terry! I'm from Hoylake on The Wirral.. it would be very cool if you turned up, please introduce yourself as 'the guy from photrio' and withhold your I-told-you-so-s if you turn out to be right!

EddyB · Feb 10, 2021

jnantz said:
I love this idea! It is extremely hard to burn and dodge something the size of 35mm.
have fun with your project!
John

Cheers John

Project help -- Fine Art 35mm contact prints

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