Progression to ULF ... yours ?

Tom Kershaw · Jan 21, 2010

photo8x10,

What made you decide on the print process, i.e. silver gelatin or pt/pd?

Tom

photo8x10 · Jan 21, 2010

Hi Tom,
Now I'm printing everything on silver gelatin,and contact print, sometimes I had used pt/pd because I was looking for a different way for my prints, I love printing on pt/pd but for my feeling the lackness of glossy or semi-matt papers is a big problem, I love, in fact, this kind of surface.I'm not keen on matt surface.

Tom Kershaw · Jan 21, 2010

I'm not the only person that likes a gloss surface then. A current trend with all the alternative process work going on does seem to be for matt surfaces.

Tom

Zebra · Jan 21, 2010

My descent into the abyss started with an RZ67. Even that little waistlevel viewfinder was mesmorizing to me. A cruddy old Green Giant Calumet 8 x 10 soon followed. I didn't even know how to develop film--dropping it off at the processor in town like it was color slide film. They all looked at me like I was nuts, which of course was accurate. I then started doing my own processing out of sheer financial survival, loved the process as much as the end product if not more, and started to realize even with my limitations as a somewhat pedestrian photographer, that a life needed something useless in it with no joy demanded except for the act of doing. I ended up buying an 8 x 10 Ebony, a lifetime purchase I thought that would end there. Fool. I had business in Japan and contacted Hiromi at Ebony via email to say I would be in Tokoyo and that I owned one of his camera's and was wondering where I should go to shoot it when i came to town. Instead of telling me, he and his incredible family, wife and daughter, arranged to come by at 5 in the morning so they could spend the rest of the day showing me wonderful spots to shoot in the countryside. It was an incredible experience. They are such an amazing family of generosity, humor and knowledge and void of ego. Went home and over the next year life led to the need to sell the ranch we were living on in Texas. In a fit of disappointment one night over the fact that we were going to sell and move, mixed with some Oban, a wonderful single malt, I hatched a Quioxtic plan of uselessness by devising a strategy of what we wanted to get out of the ranch for our regular lives and then I added the price of a 20 x 24 Ebony into the mix and challenged myself to try and negotiate into the final bargain. It worked and I ordered the camera the day after closing.

The camera's name of course is 'The Don'. The Dallmeyer 8D which weighs 18.3 lbs that goes on it is named in honor of the late great Richard Pryor, 'Ass for Days'.

I am quite happy chasing my windmills--The Don, Ass for Days and me meandering around Asheville looking for really slow things that don't move much to shoot in either Wet Plate Collodion or Platinum/Palladium and Platinum/Palladium gumover.

If you see me don't throw me a rope. I don't want to be saved,

Zebra

Brickbird · Jan 21, 2010

I was making a custom rope for 'ya but I'll toss it in the garbage.......just throw me some Lagavulin or Talisker when I go over the cliff.........Tav

nick mulder · Jan 21, 2010

I found that 8D on ebay (the tread at Quinns site also)

>>insert generic blasphemy spelled out to emphasize the phonetic emphasis here<<

I'm just a lowly 4A owner - penis envy, perhaps a bit more like brassiere sizes

roodpe · Jan 22, 2010

Found a crown graphic at work and started with that (4x5). Progressed to 5x7 and 8x10. Saw Kenro Izu's work (14x20 platinum contacts) and bought a Deardorff 14x20 back. Never found a Deardorff camera to match the back so I had Richard Ritter build one. Added an 8x20 back (also made by Deardorff). 8x20 for a panaromic view and 14x20 which is essentially the same proportion as 5x7 is a nice combo for ulf. The Ritter camera is under 20-lbs and that makes it manageable. This is my limit and I don't see anything bigger on the horizon. Based on my experiences with this camera, I am even more amazed by the guys who shoot 18x22 and 20x24. That is altogether another level of photography. Maybe instead of ulf, it should be called clf (crazy large format).

Pete

sanking · Jan 22, 2010

roodpe said:
Found a crown graphic at work and started with that (4x5). Progressed to 5x7 and 8x10. Saw Kenro Izu's work (14x20 platinum contacts) and bought a Deardorff 14x20 back.

Pete

Where did you find 14X20 holders? I have never run across one, but if Deardorff made a 14X20 back there must be some out there.

Sandy King

roodpe · Jan 22, 2010

sanking said:
Where did you find 14X20 holders? I have never run across one, but if Deardorff made a 14X20 back there must be some out there.

Sandy King

Sandy,

I had the holders custom made. Film was custom cut also. Jack Deardorff originally came up with the format for Kenro Izu. It was the largest format that could be adapted to the Deardorff 12x20. The story I heard from the guys at Lens and Repro was that Izu wanted 20x24 and Jack Deardorff talked him into 14x20. The back I bought was made at the same time.

Pete

sanking · Jan 23, 2010

roodpe said:
Sandy,

I had the holders custom made. Film was custom cut also. Jack Deardorff originally came up with the format for Kenro Izu. It was the largest format that could be adapted to the Deardorff 12x20. The story I heard from the guys at Lens and Repro was that Izu wanted 20x24 and Jack Deardorff talked him into 14x20. The back I bought was made at the same time.

Pete

Pete,

Thanks for the interesting story. You had me going there with that format!!

I am playing around with having a 10X24" back built for my 20X24 RR camera. I already have some holders that are left over from a custom order for 10X24" holders.

The only question is, will I continue down this ULF road of obsessive insanity or try to scratch my way back up the cliff to some semblance of common sense before I die.

Sandy King

jgjbowen · Jan 23, 2010

Sandy,

Life is all about the journey.....go for it!

John

ic-racer · Jan 23, 2010

In 2000 I got a 4x5 enlarger (but only had cameras going up to 6x6cm). Then I was arranging my old folder collection and realized I could re-spool some 120 to use in the 620 cameras. I also had a 100mm enlarger lens I was not using. This got me into 6x9cm. I even went and bought a third Kodak Tourist, just to get one with a little better lens.

I liked the 6x9cm so much that I wound up getting a Horseman VH-R. From there it was a no-brainer to jump to 4x5 with the Horseman 45FA.

Then, just for fun I restored my old Century 8x10 and did contacts prints. I got pretty frustrated with contact printing and got an 8x10 enlarger. From there I went on to get a modern 8x10 and went with the Shen Hao 8x10.

Allen Friday · Jan 25, 2010

I started doing "serious" photography with a Mamiya 7. I appreciated the big negatives, compared to 35mm. I found that I was constantly enlarging them up to my favorite size of 16x20. Then I started doing contact prints with 4x5. I fell in love with the quality of contact prints. That got me doing platinum prints, which led to 5x7 and 8x10. I continued to enjoy the size of my enlargements at 16x20, however. But the quality just wasn't as good as a contact print, and I didn't enjoy making enlarged negatives in the darkroom or on the computer. The only solution was a bigger, in-camera negative, which led me to build a 16x20 and then a 20x24 camera.

To me there is nothing as beautiful as a well made contact print, in either silver or alt. process. While I still shoot a lot of 8x10 and 5x7, sometimes the subject or project calls for a big print, and hence, a big negative.

jgjbowen · Jan 25, 2010

OK, I have to ask.....

How do you "larger than 16x20" guys develop your negatives? Do you use trays or tubes or ???? If trays do you stack them?

One of the reasons I stopped at 7x17/8x20 was a lack of tray space in my darkroom sinks.

Curious minds want to know. Thanks!

Allen Friday · Jan 25, 2010

I develop my 16x20 and 20x24 negatives in Jobo drums on a CCP-2 processor. There are two different drums which accommodate 16x20, and one drum which will take 20x24.

As for prints, I process alt. process prints in a single tray. I use one tray for all steps, pouring out the used chemicals and adding the new. I even wash the print in the tray. The big sheets of watercolor paper tear if picked up wet. When the wash is done, I tilt the tray at 45 degrees and let the print drain for about 1/2 hour. I can then transfer the print to a screen for drying without tearing the print. For full sheets of watercolor paper, I use smooth-bottomed trays designed to go under washing machines. They are about $20 at Home Depot.

jgjbowen · Jan 25, 2010

Allen Friday said:
I develop my 16x20 and 20x24 negatives in Jobo drums on a CCP-2 processor. There are two different drums which accommodate 16x20, and one drum which will take 20x24.

As for prints, I process alt. process prints in a single tray. I use one tray for all steps, pouring out the used chemicals and adding the new. I even wash the print in the tray. The big sheets of watercolor paper tear if picked up wet. When the wash is done, I tilt the tray at 45 degrees and let the print drain for about 1/2 hour. I can then transfer the print to a screen for drying without tearing the print. For full sheets of watercolor paper, I use smooth-bottomed trays designed to go under washing machines. They are about $20 at Home Depot.

Thanks Allen

2F/2F · Jan 26, 2010

I have developed my 12x20 pinhole pix in 16x20 trays, and in a print drum, rotated by hand on a Jobo Manual Roller Base that I got off the shelf at Freestyle. Both seem to work all right. The drum is nice because all you have to do in the dark is load it. However, I think tray processing in general gives you more room for manipulation via standing development and other changes in agitation regimen.

FWIW, all I have shot in this format has been Efke 25.

Zebra · Jan 26, 2010

I process my negatives in a tray up to four at a time. I have also used a jobo and enjoyed it but when I am working through a trip of negatives four at at time bites into them at a quicker pace. My pt/pd prints are all done in trays although I use several trays. I built my sinks to accomodate my negs so that was taken care of in reverse order. Of course the wet plate is done with a dip tank and then a dedicated tray for the fix.

Monty

nick mulder · Jan 26, 2010

This thread sure is interesting...

Seems to me like there is a meaningful jump from say to 11x14", 7x17" etc... to the 16x20" plus sizes, not to say further categorization is required but it is a consideration above and beyond just the usual "got holder, got camera, got lens with coverage, got supply of film" check list.

Allen Friday · Jan 26, 2010

Monty,

Jobo development of single negatives does get extremely boring and it does take a lot of time. I solved that problem by getting a second Jobo. (Albeit, it took about a year to find a second Jobo at a good price--I'm basically pretty cheap.) When developing film from a trip or a studio session, I will run the two machines at the same time, starting one negative five minutes before the second. I wash the film in a film/print washer, so as soon as a tube is done with the fix and 30 second rinse stage, a new tube with a new negative goes on the machine.

I never could get consistent results with big negatives in trays. I would scratch one or have uneven skies. Plus, I like being able to work in the light.

I think trays are great, if you are good at it. Unfortunately, I'm not.

sanking · Jan 26, 2010

I develop 12X20 and 20X24 film in print drums on Unicolor motor bases. I prefer this to tray agitation because my work space is relatively small and 20X24 trays would take up most of the space. Plus, rotary development in tubes gives very even development, which is one of the reasons Phil Davis promoted it for film testing.

Sandy King

jgjbowen · Jan 26, 2010

Monty,

So you are developing 20x24 negatives up to 4 at a time in trays.....you da man!

Allen,

Jobo 3063 drums or some other size?

Once you get to the ULF sizes stuff starts to get a litte crazy. I have learned a LOT from other ULF practitioners when it came to stuff like trays (from a seed company, no less) negative storage isues, print storage issues, jogging strollers to cart gear, etc.

Thanks to everyone for sharing,

Kerik · Jan 26, 2010

After moving from MF to 4x5 to 8x10 in a couple of years, in 1992 I bought a Korona 7x17 with 3 holders that was my main camera until 2000. In the ensuing time, I had my first Korona stolen, replaced it with a second, then replaced that with a Wisner 7x17. I also picked up a couple of 11x14 cameras, but never really took to that format in a big way. Along the way I collected a silly number of great lenses (when they were still relatively cheap), but the most used on the 7x17 were a 14" Dagor, a 30cm Carl Zeiss Dagor and a 450M Nikkor. In 2000 I bought a 14x17 Anthony and Scovill and a year or so after that I bought a Lotus 12x20 (the finest view camera I ever owned). It soon became clear that too many formats was having a negative impact on my work, so I sold the 7x17 and 12x20 cameras and did a ton of work with the 14x17, a lot of it with an 18" Verito that looks like crap but makes a beautiful image. In 2004 I became hooked on the smell of ether when wet plate collodion took over my life. Since then, the vast majority of my work has been done with an 8x10 Kodak Masterview and a Derogy portrait petzval lens. I occasionally pull out the 14x17 or 11x14, but not very often. So, I've been to ULF and back again.

Allen Friday · Jan 26, 2010

The Jobo 3063 works well for developing ULF negatives. I use it for 20x24, 16x20 or (2) 12x20s. The 2850 with the 2830 extension tube works for 16x20 or (1) 12x20.

I have acquired a lot of tubes over the years. I used to bid on the auction site on about every tube that came up. Every once in a while, I would win at a very low price. For some reason, people tend not to bid in mid to late December, which is when I had the most success getting things cheaply. Put in a low bid and forget about it. If you win, great. If not, there will be another one later. Patience, patience, patience.

Allen Friday · Jan 26, 2010

One more thing, the Jobo tubes are not the best for pyro developers. They have ridges that run the length of the tubes on the inside. The ridges create lines on the negatives. There are work arounds, however. I know of several ULF workers who use the tubes with pyro. Personally, I like the results with D-76, so I never spent the time to perfect the work around.

Progression to ULF ... yours ?

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