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Ian Grant

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I'm looking at what options there are for smallish (footprint) automated film processing unit. Anything from a small dunk dip line/machine downwards, must have capability for Reversal processing, be self replenishing etc. Ideally capable of processing 35mm, 120, 5x4 and up to 10x8.

Sourcing a machines isn't a major issue, but I'd like a good idea of what to be looking for first.

Ian
 

Mick Fagan

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Hmm, you are serious about a reversal processing plant.

Ian, one of the technical problems I have witnessed first hand with dip and dunk machines, is their problem with 135 format being too long to process without hanging over (emulsion out) something.

All of the dip and dunk machines I have seen and used in a commercial environment, three different types. One manufactured in Australia, one from the USA and one from Germany, were all designed to be able to take a full length 120 film in a straight vertical drop. This is fine for 120 film and any kind of sheet film hanger, but as 135 film is markedly longer than 120 film, it has to be looped over, what is effectively a film version of a coat hanger.

This will eventually cause some consistency in processing, come the day a film is hung over with the emulsion facing inwards. Effectively between 1½ and 3 frames are usually under developed.

One place that I worked in, picked up an automatic carousel type processor. Once they had this up and running it was used exclusively for 135 format, with all other formats done on their dip and dunk processor.

The carousel processor used Jobo reels, 1500 series reels that were brilliantly fast and easy to load, even in the relatively humid environment of a dip and dunk machine room. I cannot remember exactly what make or model it was, but think of a round table that could seat 8 people, that is about the size and it was about 600m high. If I remember correctly it did four reels in each section, then the carousel of reels lifted up and moved to the next section and dropped in for the next step.

It was as fully automated as anything manufactured about 30 years ago, in other words, an electrical/mechanical set-up.

Although I’m loathe to suggest a roller transport system for film, we, in our B&W in-house lab used a deep tank 310mm wide Kreonite paper processor very effectively for B&W film of any sort up to 11” wide with nary a problem in the one year I was there. It was a four bath processor and when purchasing we were given the option of a six bath unit with a washer/dryer add on, for the possibility of E6. Because the Kreonite was originally a deep tank model designed for EP2 colour paper. It was factory modified for the then new RA4 process, it had the ability to process either EP2 or RA4.

This was achieved by speeding up or slowing down the roller speeds electronically, one had an electronic reading of the feed speed just above the feed in tray. This speed change feature was terrific as it enabled us to push or pull the first bath time very accurately. As with dip and dunk processors, you had to ensure that the processor was free of prior loaded films, before changing the speed.

Just some food for thought.

Mick.
 

AgX

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Concerning Jobo the problem is `reversal + self-replenishing´. Though with some of their drum processors you can recuperate the used baths, none of them brings them back into service let alone replenishes them.

Thermaphot had a cute selfreplenishing roller transport processor (35+60mm), but only for C-41.
 
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analogsnob

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If you can find one in usable condition I think a Richcolor machine would fill your need. It did dip and dumk E6 with nitrogen burst up to 8 35mm at a time and up to 8x10 sheets, It was loaded in the dark, closed and the process started. Come back in 40ish minuits and hang the film the machine then washed itself and replenished itself ready for the next run all in about 30" square by 7ish feet high.

The one we had ran nice thight plots the 2 years we ran it before moving up to a bigger machine.
 

AgX

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Mick,

A stepped hanger with a recess contacting the rebates only should avoid any loop problems occuring after hanging the film emulsion-inward. Or would there still be a too low flow through the recess, even with holes in the flanges of the hanger?
 

michaelbsc

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Concerning Jobo the problem is `reversal + self-replenishing´. Though with some of their drum processors you can recuperate the used baths, none of them brings them back into service let alone replenishes them.

Thermaphot had a cute selfreplenishing roller transport processor (35+60mm), but only for C-41.

It won't do 8x10, but the Phototherm SSK8R will do automatic replenishment. (The SSK8 will not.) If you have Photherm burn a custom eeprom for the controller you can have any process you can describe to them, or many of the one's they've already got parameters for. Their claim is that K-14 is the only thing not possible, but I've never used anything except the stock programs.
 

AgX

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Michael,

Thermaphot anf Phototherm are different brands. These names...
 
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Ian Grant

Ian Grant

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Thermaphot seem to have stopped making the type of processor I'd need, only minilab film processing equipment now, so all C41. But I'll investigate further.further.

Phototherm processors don't look practical, not enough capacity, so maybe Tom Kershaw's suggestion of a "Jobo ATL-2300" might be a good starting point. Can they process 10x8's

Mick Fagan's carousel processor unit is another option, and could work very easily, I looked at something similar when I revisited a thread about Photo booths & reversal processing. I could get something like this made from scratch very easily if needs be.

I've also had a few suggestions by PM & email, and one possible machine is manufactured by Wing Lynch.

Thanks for all the suggestions any others are welomed :D

Ian
 

Tom Kershaw

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Ian,

The ATL-2300 and other ATL series machines can process 8x10 and other sheet film formats either through a dedicated 'Expert' drum or a print drum. I have just started to use a 2830 drum to develop two sheets of 8x10 at a time in 500ml solution; the Expert 3005 drum for 8x10 will do five sheets at a time.

Tom.
 
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Ian Grant

Ian Grant

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Thanks Tom that's exactly what I needed to hear. I've used Jobo drums for years, but they last so well both mine are 30+ years old :smile:

I was wrong to dismiss the Jobo ATL-2300 earlier as being too small, it might be ideal to start with.

Ian
 
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Ian Grant

Ian Grant

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Thanks Peter I'll check it out.

But all ATL's are intended for one-shot use.

My previous reply was deleted. A Jobo will possibly do for initial field tests, the first developer that looks most promising has a replenisher so if the project is commercially viable it can easily be scaled up and a replenishment system implemented.

Ian
 
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