Processing Times for the Jobo CPE-2

Stuggi · Mar 24, 2014

I just bought a Jobo, and when I tried processing a roll of Double-X in HC-110 (1+31) in it, my negatives came out very blotchy looking and quite unsharp, with a distinct over-development look to them. Now, I used the same time I use for inversion processing, and had the Jobo at the slow setting, so my guess is that the "extreme" agitation compared to normal 10sec/min inversion is the culprit, but since my knowledge of film processing is a bit slim I thought I'd check with you guys. And if I'm right and the agitation is to blame, how do you adjust the time to compensate?

CatLABS · Mar 24, 2014

What time did you use?
HC-110 often has extremely short dev times, so if you take the 10-15 you might want to adjust it amounts to a huge difference over such a short processing time. You will either have to use a different dilution if you still want to use HC110, as reducing the time by even 10% might result in too short of a dev time (anything under 5 minutes might have uneven results, especially if you do not have a lift), or perhaps use a different developer.

In any case you want to use the higher speed setting on your CPE2 for film processing.

markbarendt · Mar 24, 2014

With constant agitation, instead of invert and wait, processing time needs to be reduced. 15-20% less is a reasonable bet but you may need to experiment a bit to get it just right.

markbarendt · Mar 24, 2014

As CatLABS says you may want to try and bump the speed a bit, I do all mine slow, from just where it clicks on up to 4 on my CPA2, but haven't played with HC110 and have heard of others needing faster speeds.

I have used DD-X, WD2D+, and RolloPyro in the Jobo. They have each worked fine.

ic-racer · Mar 24, 2014

Try T-max developer.

jerrybro · Mar 24, 2014

Years ago the techs at Jobo found that a 5 minute presoak allowed users to use the same times as published for inversion methods. The later CPE2+ only has 1 speed, 75rpm, and that has worked great for me using a number of different developers.

pentaxuser · Mar 24, 2014

jerrybro said:
Years ago the techs at Jobo found that a 5 minute presoak allowed users to use the same times as published for inversion methods.

John Tinsley in his book "Rotary Processor Processor Manual" found exactly the same thing or did he simply copy what the techs at Jobo had found or they him?

pentaxuser

Rolfe Tessem · Mar 24, 2014

As jerrybro says, a five minute pre-wet compensates almost perfectly for the more vigorous agitation, allowing you to use the same times published for inversion processing.

Stuggi · Mar 24, 2014

I used a 5 minute development, and the slow speed. I did use a 1,5 minute presoak as I normally do with manual processing, but I'll extend that then to 5. The reason I used a 5 minute dev time is that I hate standing there inverting the tank, and I got good results with it, but now with the Jobo dev times isn't much of an issue so I'll look into longer times for the film.

Bruce Osgood · Mar 24, 2014

I'm using a CPE-2 with lift -- ONE SPEED GO.

For many years I used the 5 min pre wash with mixed results. I switched to a 5 min tempering bath a year or so ago and not had a problem.

I'm developing Delta 100 4x5 in Xtol 1+1. Don't see this changing.

pentaxuser · Mar 24, 2014

Bruce Osgood said:
For many years I used the 5 min pre wash with mixed results. I switched to a 5 min tempering bath a year or so ago and not had a problem.

Sorry for my apparent abstruseness but can you explain the difference between the success of the 5 min tempering bath compared to the 5 min pre-wash mixed results? Thanks.

pentaxuser

markbarendt · Mar 24, 2014

pentaxuser said:
Sorry for my apparent abstruseness but can you explain the difference between the success of the 5 min tempering bath compared to the 5 min pre-wash mixed results? Thanks.

pentaxuser

+1

Bruce Osgood · Mar 24, 2014

pentazuser and markbarendt;

I trace some very unsatisfactory results in terms of uneven development, stains and even pin holes in film to the time I used a pre-wash.

Stains? you say. How can you blame a pre-wash? I can't, but I can say once I stopped using a pre wash I stopped having occasionally stained negative. The same is true of pin holes and uneven development.

You might suggest my pre wash procedure was in question and I might agree with you; but I ain't going back to find out.

markbarendt · Mar 24, 2014

I'm not suggesting a pre-soak. In fact I only use a pre-wash/soak now with RolloPyro, it's a Sodium Metaborate bath that is part of the process with this developer, not water.

You mentioned a tempering bath though, Pentaxuser and I were wondering how that was different?

Roger Cole · Mar 24, 2014

I always use the pre-soak and never had a problem I linked to that though I did, after years of NO problems, see some uneven skies in some FP4+. Then I read that Jobo later recommended using only the fast "print" speed in the CPE2 (which I have) which is why they went to one speed only on the CPE2+ so I started doing that. No more uneven skies but I admit I saw that only once out of hundreds of rolls before so I can't say for sure it was due to the speed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pioneer · Mar 24, 2014

I do continuous agitation two different ways.

First, I use the Jobo CPE-2+ and always use the 5 min pre-wash/tempering bath (I think it is a bit of both actually) and have had no problems using manufacturers published developing times.

Second, I use the Jobo 1509 roller when I am not in the mood to set up the CPE-2 (usually for short batches of one to three films). With the roller base I never use a pre-wash step, still use manufacturer's developing recommendations, and still get very good negatives.

Not sure why this is but I have not questioned the results. I almost always use D-76 but have used HC-110, DDX and Rodinal with no difference (besides those you expect.)

I have used both methods for a little less than a year and have developed about 200 rolls of film of mixed brands including 135, 120 and 4x5.

Bruce Osgood · Mar 24, 2014

The "tempering" bath is to bring all the physical parts (film, reels and drum) to the same temperature as the developer prior to introducing the develpper. The procedure is simply spinning the dry drum with film in it for 5 minutes in the tub.

Pioneer · Mar 24, 2014

Bruce Osgood said:
The "tempering" bath is to bring all the physical parts (film, reels and drum) to the same temperature as the developer prior to introducing the develpper. The procedure is simply spinning the dry drum with film in it for 5 minutes in the tub.

That is interesting. My directions specifically state to use water of the temperature of the developer for the pre-wash. Ah well, like everything else in this business there are several different ways to skin a cat...and none of them are wrong as long as you get good results.

pentaxuser · Mar 24, 2014

Thanks Bruce I now understand. I had assumed that the tempering bath was a water bath so couldn't work out how this differed from a pre-soak.

pentaxuser

jerrybro · Mar 24, 2014

I do use water at the developer temperature, when the Jobo is stabilizing the water and developer are in the bottle slots. I also make sure any water I use for dilution is at that temperature. I like the higher dilutions at slightly higher temps and extended development times for maintaining consistency. If I'm off a few seconds in draining I figure it is less of an issue. Consistency is critical to me. I rely on the repeatability to get me the result I expect. When I fire the shutter I have an image in my mind that can only develop (yeah a pun, so what) if my process does exactly what I expect it to do. This is also why I use D23 mixed fresh. I hate surprises.

jerrybro · Mar 24, 2014

Stuggi said:
I used a 5 minute development, and the slow speed. I did use a 1,5 minute presoak as I normally do with manual processing, but I'll extend that then to 5. The reason I used a 5 minute dev time is that I hate standing there inverting the tank, and I got good results with it, but now with the Jobo dev times isn't much of an issue so I'll look into longer times for the film.

Put it on high speed, pull off the knob and put it in a drawer, you won't need it any more.

Bruce Osgood · Mar 24, 2014

I may have caused some confusion regarding pre-soak/rinse/wetting. My abandoning the 5 minute pre-soak/rinse/wetting was predicated on a Jobo Bulletin from a couple years or more ago.

http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/bulletins/xtol.htm

You'll notice a little ways down it states no pre-wetting when using XTOL, not all developers. I am an avid Xtol user and sometimes think everyone else is too.

markbarendt · Mar 25, 2014

Good info Bruce.

We also need to remember that other people who know, like Ilford, also suggest no pre-soak with their materials.

Presoaking isn't required or recommended or needed or even beneficial in many cases. And it takes extra work and extra water and extra wear and tear on equipment and extra time.

As an example it is somewhat regular that we see a thread here at APUG talking about uneven development on an Ilford film where the fix found in the end, is simply eliminating the pre-soak.

The note from Jobo is a good reminder that even though most any B&W film can be developed in most any B&W developer, differences remain. We may use Jobos for our convenience but using one really does change what happens to the image in the film.

We have to be willing to adjust to match.

Rolfe Tessem · Mar 25, 2014

Bruce Osgood said:
I may have caused some confusion regarding pre-soak/rinse/wetting. My abandoning the 5 minute pre-soak/rinse/wetting was predicated on a Jobo Bulletin from a couple years or more ago.

http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/bulletins/xtol.htm

You'll notice a little ways down it states no pre-wetting when using XTOL, not all developers. I am an avid Xtol user and sometimes think everyone else is too.

The only reason Jobo says this is that Xtol came out after rotary processing was already popular, so Kodak did the testing in rotary tubes without a pre-wet and published the times. So, you have the Kodak tested times for no pre-wet with Xtol only. You can get the same results by using a pre-wet and using the inversion tank times. I've processed hundreds of rolls in Xtol this way, since I use a Jobo ATL-1000 which has no way to turn off the pre-wet...

Bruce Osgood · Mar 25, 2014

And what do you gain by using the pre-wet...

Processing Times for the Jobo CPE-2

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