Problem with Arches platine

lzhou1

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I am printing Na2 Pd on Arches platine. I find that i will get a speckle image without the help of tween20. however, the Dmax still weak even with tween20. i also have printed some prints on Hahnemuhle Platinum rag, the paper i got from my instructor. I can see differences in black area between two papers. the black on platine is brighter and warmer. The HPR shows a really deep black, which is what i assume that platine can produce. I wonder that am i get a bad batch of platine? from what i read that the platine should have similar max density as HPR.

I don't have a densitometer, so i could not determine the exact value of black.
my platine is from Freestyle. i use Ammonium citric as developer.

thanks!
the left is HPR, Ilford FB Classic on the right as comparison


the Platine



Platine with tween20
 
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Jim Noel

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I never use Na2 and have not had any similar difficulties with Platine. Yes it is warm, but that is what I like. The "blacks" are a beautiful warm black. I have not had a chance to try my sample of the new Hanemuhle Platinum Rag. I also generally use ammonium citrate developer for most prints.
 
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lzhou1

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Hi jim,
My Na2 ratio is relatively low, only 0.325%. Do u use tween for your platine?
 

Jim Noel

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No,I have no need to use Tween with this paper. I have been printing Pd/Pt since the 70's always with the motto of not adding unnecessary chemicals or steps. There are some papers with which I found Tween necessary,so I don't use them.
 

Alan9940

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I, too, have recently started working with Platine and have not been happy with the blacks. I don't use na2 and I develop with PO. Have yet to figure out what will give me the black density I'm looking for so I'm definitely interested in following this thread. I haven't tried Tween20, but I have tried dampening the paper with distilled water just prior to coating and pre-humidifying the paper; neither of which helped the blacks.
 
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lzhou1

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Jim Noel said:
No,I have no need to use Tween with this paper. I have been printing Pd/Pt since the 70's always with the motto of not adding unnecessary chemicals or steps. There are some papers with which I found Tween necessary,so I don't use them.
Click to expand...

This is how blacks looks like without Tween.
 

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lzhou1

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Hows ur black looks like?
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I noticed a bit of weirdness when I was making a kallitype on the last batch of Platine that I purchased about a year ago. The sensitizer beaded on the surface of the paper when using the puddle pusher. Several passes smoothed it out. That wasn't the case with older Platine batch. The print looked very spotty at the start of development, but smoothed out after a minute or so. I develop for 10 minutes in sodium citrate. DMax was also slightly subdued. What has happened to this paper? I guess I'll have to try Hahnemuhle Platinum rag. Where can I get a sample pack?
 

Alan9940

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lzhou1 said:
Hows ur black looks like?
Click to expand...

Anemic when compared to old stock of COT-320 and Platinotype that I have. I'm am getting low on this old stock so I am looking for a new paper. Doesn't look like the Arches paper is going to do for me.
 
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lzhou1

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I think i will give up Platine. You can get Hahnemuhle from BH now. It has already shipped to America. The paper is excellent. it saves chemical, smoother and maybe consistency i assume because it is a machine-made paper.
 
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lzhou1

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Alan9940 said:
Anemic when compared to old stock of COT-320 and Platinotype that I have. I'm am getting low on this old stock so I am looking for a new paper. Doesn't look like the Arches paper is going to do for me.
Click to expand...

Yea, i guess i will give up Platine paper after i use out the last 3 sheets. I have ordered some packs of hahnemuhle. It is excellent, which is learned from their bate pack.
 

Jim Noel

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Alan9940 said:
Anemic when compared to old stock of COT-320 and Platinotype that I have. I'm am getting low on this old stock so I am looking for a new paper. Doesn't look like the Arches paper is going to do for me.
Click to expand...
Perhaps this is the answer to why I don't have a problem while others do. When I find a paper I like I don't buy a few sheets - I buy a case of uncut.I have had my current supply for several years.

Jim
 

Peter Schrager

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I just went to the B+H site; for some reason it says special order
 

Tim Layton

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There are several factors that can impact the tones and DMAX in your Pt/Pd prints. The humidity is a factor often overlooked. I suggest getting a simple thermometer that shows humidity. They are available for about $10 to $12 USD on amazon.com. I suggest that you start tracking this with each print. The temperature of your developer can have an impact as well. I also suggest that you record that with each print too. Paper choice has an impact too as I think you are already figured out. Then there are the chemical variables. Pure Pt prints have different color and tone Na2 or Pt/Pd prints. Then of course, there are the ratios of chemicals that can also have an impact.

I do have a densitometer and I will share some things with you that may help.

I look at my density range (DR). That is the difference between (DMIN) and (DMAX).

I have found that I have the widest DR on COT320 paper. I print Pt only (no Pd or na2).

On COT320 my whites (DMIN) are about .05 and my blacks (DMAX) are about 1.37 giving me a DR of about 1.32.

If you are seeking silver gelatin types of blacks (DMAX) with any combo of Pt/Pd printing, then you will be disappointed in my opinion. The goal is to seek for "convincing" blacks and a good DR within your prints. This is my humble opinion based on 30 years of printing.

The next thing you need to have control of is how much exposure is required to produce DMAX in your prints without fighting solarization. For this very reason, this is why I have tested several films and papers to determine what fits my personal style and creative vision. Testing is a pain in the ass, but it pays off. I test with Stouffer step wedges to determine my exposure range. Note that Solarization is much more of a problem with Pd than with Pt.

If you continue to not get what you are seeking, then consider the items I mentioned above.

Keep very good notes and records all of your varaibles with each print. After you print for a while this will be your best teacher.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Tim
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I picked up a sheet of Platine from an art store near me. During development (I'm making Kallitypes), it became quite spotty, just like the cheapy papers I tried in the past with suspect sizing. This looks like a sizing issue. Once dried, you can only see this defect when the print is back lit. Black specs can also been seen scattered about the paper when back lit. This is terrible. I contacted the art store and they are contacting their sales rep.
I really like this paper, especially for my carbon transfers over kallitypes. I may have to move to the Hahnemühle Platinum Rag paper...
 

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williaty

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There have been numerous reports from all across the country in the last 6 months of alt process printers having problems with Arches Platine. They've either had a bad batch or made a production line change that makes it unsuitable now.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Yes. I'm well aware of that. It's a sizing issue. The art store I bought it from who just brought in a big new order however, was unaware. Unfortunately, they got a bad batch. I just ordered Hahnemühle Platinum Rag paper... 10 loonies per 22x30, is more reasonable.
 

pateeid

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I have been printing with platine for few year and never get any problem with it. I wonder that u spread the emusion too wide? Or your emision not dry yet? Anything possible
 

Bob Carnie

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williaty said:
There have been numerous reports from all across the country in the last 6 months of alt process printers having problems with Arches Platine. They've either had a bad batch or made a production line change that makes it unsuitable now.
Click to expand...
I just got a replacement order of Arches Platine, some nimrod put the stickers on the face of the paper which showed through every print, I also got white measels like Andrew showed above. Too bad as I really liked AP.

I have just received 25 sheets of Hannamuhle Platinum, available through Amplis for you Canadian printers out there, and will be giving it a work out next week.


Regarding Dmax.. I do multiple coat of gum over pd to increase Dmax, I can get a very believable black with Pt Pd but of course put it beside a Silver print and bets are off.

I love the values of a Pt Pd and do not sweat the Dmax issue or non issue in my case.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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pateeid said:
I have been printing with platine for few year and never get any problem with it. I wonder that u spread the emusion too wide? Or your emision not dry yet? Anything possible
Click to expand...

No it's got nothing to do with how the sensitiser is applied or not dry enough. It's a sizing issue. You can see the spotty sizing when the print is immersed in the developer.... then darkened dots can be seen in a back lit print. Not nice. I've placed an order for 22x30 sheets of Hannamuhle Platinum.
 

Bob Carnie

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I am trying some HP this weekend Andrew, I would be interested in how you like it as well.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Bob, I have tried the sample pack, and I was quite pleased with it. But... I have not tried it for my carbon over kallitypes. I'm hoping it will stand up to two boiling hot water bathes to shrink it, like I did with the Arches. Are you shrinking your paper too before attaching it to aluminum?
 
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