Printing older negatives well. Tips?

analoguey · Nov 3, 2014

So, I recently got talking to a friend about printing in the darkroom, and he said he had a bunch of old negatives around that he wanted printed.

These are negatives that have survived floods, a million moves and thousands of kilometers and summers with mean temperatures >40C.

I took a look, they're all on orwo 120(6x6) negatives from early 70s. I got a decent print off one negative, but there's some dust and scratches on it - too small to spot or correct on the negative/print, looks like.( other -ves also in like condition )
I'll be enlarging to 8x10 size(probably with cropping).

So I'm wondering what I could do for an 8x10 enlargement of a negative with some scratching and spots.

Thanks!

(I'll try and post a shot of the prints I got a little later-phone pics look hideous)

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darkosaric · Nov 3, 2014

You should get familiar with the Retouching techniques - this is for me the hardest part of the whole process.

Ghostman · Nov 3, 2014

In the olden days of yore, printers would use 'nose grease' to fill small scratches. These days you can still get a no-scratch oil for this. I have never tried it but I have some scratched negatives that I would like to print. I friend of mine tried the oil and it solved his particular. A light film of oil over the scratch will fill it in and ultimately make life easier when it comes to touching up and spotting.

darkosaric · Nov 3, 2014

Also what helps is using diffuser enlarger, not condenser.

Rick A · Nov 3, 2014

I had a customer that handed me a box full of family negatives from the 1930's and 40's who wanted them reprinted. I had to clean every negative before printing, which was merely a soak in a solution of distilled water, LFN, and 90% isopropyl alcohol. I was able to get decent prints with most of the negatives, some had to be touched up, but most did well with just a bit of nose oil. Unless the photographer handed you Ansel Adams quality materials, expect mediocre results.

bsdunek · Nov 3, 2014

Negatives can be re-washed to remove any dirt/lint stuck to them. Try gently wiping with a anti-static cloth first though - you might not have to rewash.
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The "nose grease" mentioned by Ghostman has worked well for me. I would give that a try. A diffuser enlarger, as mentioned b darkosaric is a good idea too, if you can find one.

analoguey · Nov 3, 2014

Darko,
Retouching sounds like another whole learning curve - is that viable with 8x10 prints? I'd think it looks better with larger prints?

Bsdubnek, No diffuser light source yet. So that will be off for a while, only have a condenser for now.(not for lack of searching)

I'll try the no-scratch Oil, ghostman- no nose-grease though!

Another thing with these scratches is that they're not that apparent on the negative when held to light, but are only apparent as small tiny dots when enlarged!

I'll try and post a decent sized picture from the PC

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darkosaric · Nov 3, 2014

analoguey said:
Retouching sounds like another whole learning curve - is that viable with 8x10 prints? I'd think it looks better with larger prints?

Bigger prints are retouching much easier, but I done some repairs on 8x10 as well. Sometimes I don't use brush, but toothpick, and working with loupe. But it is a frustrating job for me.

analoguey · Nov 3, 2014

Hmm. Toothpick and loupe - I'll try that on a Test Print. Although I don't see myself doing it for an 8x10 unless it's big enough. I think a photo will explain it better I think.

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Neal · Nov 3, 2014

Dear analoguey,

This will reduce the amount of retouching you will need to do.
I hope you can find some locally.
Good luck,

Neal Wydra

analoguey · Nov 3, 2014

Thanks Neal that looks like something to use, I'll see if there's a comparable formula around!

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removed account4 · Nov 3, 2014

Ghostman said:
In the olden days of yore, printers would use 'nose grease' to fill small scratches. These days you can still get a no-scratch oil for this. I have never tried it but I have some scratched negatives that I would like to print. I friend of mine tried the oil and it solved his particular. A light film of oil over the scratch will fill it in and ultimately make life easier when it comes to touching up and spotting.

my mentor would freak if you used nose-oil,
she'd say " always, from behind the ear ! "

not sure why, better grade of body grease ? no idea ... but it worked as well as a greasy nose ..

tkamiya · Nov 3, 2014

Edwal stuff REALLY WORKS. I've used it personally.

Before that, I was using a stick of butter. THAT didn't work very well.

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 3, 2014

Enlarger with diffuse light source.

Try printing on the Ilford Art 300 paper, which has texture. It 'fills in' some of the problem areas, and is also very easy to retouch.
Other papers to consider are the Foma 123 papers, or the new 118 surface of the ADOX MCC. Those have fine grain surfaces that also aid retouching a bit.

The Edwal solution is great! I've used it on some prints and it really does work.

Compressed air is a wonderful tool for getting rid of dust on the negatives. Some dust is hard to remove, so using a very soft antistatic cloth is also a good suggestion. Then canned compressed air.

Scratches can be a pain. But it's really good practice in becoming a better printer.

Good luck!

darkosaric · Nov 3, 2014

I would always be afraid to put something on the negative - one mistake and it is game over. I know those things work - but anyhow...I always manipulate prints.

David Allen · Nov 3, 2014

If there is enough space between your lower condenser and the top of the negative carrier you can introduce your own diffusion.

Simply get a bit of opaque heat resistant perspex and cut it to fit and then tape in place with electrical tape.

Not pretty but it works and could remove a lot of your problems.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 3, 2014

David Allen said:
If there is enough space between your lower condenser and the top of the negative carrier you can introduce your own diffusion.

Simply get a bit of opaque heat resistant perspex and cut it to fit and then tape in place with electrical tape.

Not pretty but it works and could remove a lot of your problems.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

That's a great suggestion. It will weaken the output some, but usually that is not a big problem. I've even seen good work produced with milk glass introduced below the bottom condenser.

David Allen · Nov 3, 2014

Thomas Bertilsson said:
That's a great suggestion. It will weaken the output some, but usually that is not a big problem. I've even seen good work produced with milk glass introduced below the bottom condenser.

Yes milk glass works well - but only if you, or someone you know, can cut it to fit.

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

summicron1 · Nov 3, 2014

retouching and cleaning is certainly an option but how many negatives are we discussing and what are the expectations of the owner?

One thing to remember is that these negatives reflect their story -- all those floods and moves and so on. Does he want presentation images, or just visible memories? Is he willing to pay for the amount of time that would take, if this is a cash deal? If not a cash deal, how much strain can your friendship stand while you do this for free?

All things to consider.

Depending on the numbers of negs and amount of time you are willing to spend, I'd say brush them off, wash off the worst of the goo if applicable, make the best prints you can, and let any final defects be proof of their genuine status as survivors of the 50 years on this planet.

ParkerSmithPhoto · Nov 3, 2014

Ghostman said:
In the olden days of yore, printers would use 'nose grease' to fill small scratches. These days you can still get a no-scratch oil for this. I have never tried it but I have some scratched negatives that I would like to print. I friend of mine tried the oil and it solved his particular. A light film of oil over the scratch will fill it in and ultimately make life easier when it comes to touching up and spotting.

My God, I haven't thought about "nose grease" in years. My old photography teacher used to advocate this and I remember using it with great results.

It's hard to say "nose grease" without smiling.

M Carter · Nov 5, 2014

So how does one apply nose grease (or, apparently for the finest results, behind-the-ear-grease, reserved for movie star portraiture)?

Wipe it over the entire neg? Brush it on the scratch as if retouching a spot?

Or just wipe the neg on your forehead? (Seriously, a 4x5 film sleeve from the lab and a forehead rub was my go-to diffusion for that "turbo-filter" look that was so vogue in the 90's)...

RalphLambrecht · Nov 5, 2014

I'd stay away from nose grease but retouching prints is easy and satisfying.

M Carter · Nov 5, 2014

RalphLambrecht said:
I'd stay away from nose grease but retouching prints is easy and satisfying.

Seriously, just curious about old-school stuff like this. How did people apply it to a neg?

darkosaric · Nov 6, 2014

RalphLambrecht said:
I'd stay away from nose grease but retouching prints is easy and satisfying.

Thanks for the pdf Ralph. It looks so easy when you explain .

analoguey · Nov 6, 2014

tkamiya said:
Edwal stuff REALLY WORKS. I've used it personally.

Before that, I was using a stick of butter. THAT didn't work very well.

No buttering up this one! )

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Enlarger with diffuse light source.

Try printing on the Ilford Art 300 paper, which has texture. It 'fills in' some of the problem areas, and is also very easy to retouch.
Other papers to consider are the Foma 123 papers, or the new 118 surface of the ADOX MCC. Those have fine grain surfaces that also aid retouching a bit.

The Edwal solution is great! I've used it on some prints and it really does work.

Compressed air is a wonderful tool for getting rid of dust on the negatives. Some dust is hard to remove, so using a very soft antistatic cloth is also a good suggestion. Then canned compressed air.

Scratches can be a pain. But it's really good practice in becoming a better printer.

Good luck!

Thanks!
ATM, the edwal looks like a bit of a search, I'll try the Ilford (or foma) combo next time I order some(currently buying RC locally)
Indeed, one of things I want to do with this exercise is to better my printing skills - even if negatives turn out to be not so great!

darkosaric said:
I would always be afraid to put something on the negative - one mistake and it is game over. I know those things work - but anyhow...I always manipulate prints.

No, I'd never interfere with the negative, maybe a copy,at best!

Printing older negatives well. Tips?

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