Printing medium format on a Beseler 23cii?

[Photo Chemist]

What do I need to be able to print 6x6 and 6x45 negatives on a Beseler 23cii?? Do I need a new lens? Can make a negative carrier (cardboard?) or do I need to purchase one? It was gifted to me recently and is equipped for 35mm printing.

 

[Pentode]

I’m not sure how sturdy a cardboard negative carrier would be. Ideally, you’d want the negative to be held perfectly flat. It’s worth a try....

While you can use the lens you have for medium format it really won’t be ideal, optically. For best results you should use a lens with a focal length equal to or a little longer than a normal lens for the format you’re shooting. For 645 that would be 75mm and for 6x6 it would be 80mm. That means you could use an 80 or 90mm lens for both 6x6 and 645.

 

[Pentode]

Also, if your 23c has a condenser head you’ll need to reconfigure the lenses in the housing when you print medium format but you won’t need to buy anything new for that.

 

[Photo Chemist]

Also, if your 23c has a condenser head you’ll need to reconfigure the lenses in the housing when you print medium format but you won’t need to buy anything new for that.

I’m not sure how sturdy a cardboard negative carrier would be. Ideally, you’d want the negative to be held perfectly flat. It’s worth a try....

While you can use the lens you have for medium format it really won’t be ideal, optically. For best results you should use a lens with a focal length equal to or a little longer than a normal lens for the format you’re shooting. For 645 that would be 75mm and for 6x6 it would be 80mm. That means you could use an 80 or 90mm lens for both 6x6 and 645.

Ok. Thank you. I thought I had seen somewhere that someone had made their own negative carrier. But what you said, makes perfect sense. I thought I needed a different lens, but for some reason, I wasn't able to find one. I will look again. thank you!

How do I reconfigure the lenses in the housing? Is that easy-peasy or is it more involved?

 

[jim10219]

Ok. Thank you. I thought I had seen somewhere that someone had made their own negative carrier. But what you said, makes perfect sense. I thought I needed a different lens, but for some reason, I wasn't able to find one. I will look again. thank you!

How do I reconfigure the lenses in the housing? Is that easy-peasy or is it more involved?

Easy-peasy. There are two knobs that move two sets of bellows on the enlarger. The bottom one moves the distance between the lens board and the negative carrier. It's used for focusing. The top one moves the distance between the negative carrier and the condenser unit. It should be attached to small metal strip with a maker that has several different settings like 35mm, 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, and 6x9. Just move it to the appropriate setting.

You can make a negative carrier. But don't use cardboard. Use card stock. It's less likely to compress and introduce light leaks. There are some instructions for it online. I actually made a few for my Beseler 23ciii, but lost them in a move before I got a chance to use them. Basically they were just two house shaped cutouts of black card stock with the appropriate sized hole for the negatives cut out in the middle. They were bound at the rear edge by some black duct tape that acted as a hinge. I even painted them black to reduce the amount of paper fibers that could free up. In the end, I wound up just buying some proper negative carriers instead, due to having misplaced them.

 

[Pentode]

It turns out I mis-spoke about reconfiguring the condensers. I use a diffusion head on mine and remembered setting up the condenser incorrectly.

Page 3 of this manual should give you all the information you need:
http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/enlargers/beseler/Beseler_23C_II.pdf

For some reason I had a recollection of needing to flip one of the condenser lenses over but sometimes my brain just gets soft....

 

[MattKing]

Assuming you have a 50mm lens, it probably won't work with 6x6 because it isn't designed to "cover" that big a negative. The corners won't be sharp and may not even be illuminated at all.
Longer lenses are designed to cover bigger negatives. In an enlarger, they also provide smaller magnification, which is appropriate for making regular sized prints from larger negatives.
It is a lot easier to work with the correct negative carrier and the right lens. For Beseler 23C enlargers, there are a lot of good quality 80mm lenses and negative carriers on the used market . And as you are a subscriber, you should consider posting a "Want to Buy" thread here.

 

[btaylor]

Get an 80mm lens mounted on a Beseler board and a 6x6 negative carrier here at Photrio (try a “want to buy” post) or head over to the ‘bay. It will be under $100 for both and you’ll be good to go. I have El Nikkor lenses for mine and like them a lot.
Of course you can make the cardboard carrier version, but the metal ones are much less fiddly and will keep your negative pretty flat.

 

[btaylor]

Ha! Matt and I seem to think the same...

 

[Pieter12]

What do I need to be able to print 6x6 and 6x45 negatives on a Beseler 23cii?? Do I need a new lens? Can make a negative carrier (cardboard?) or do I need to purchase one? It was gifted to me recently and is equipped for 35mm printing.

Diane Arbus famously used a cardboard negative carrier for her prints, possibly in conjunction with a metal one. It's what gives her prints that soft border. Not sure which enlarger she used.

 

[Photo Chemist]

Assuming you have a 50mm lens, it probably won't work with 6x6 because it isn't designed to "cover" that big a negative. The corners won't be sharp and may not even be illuminated at all.
Longer lenses are designed to cover bigger negatives. In an enlarger, they also provide smaller magnification, which is appropriate for making regular sized prints from larger negatives.
It is a lot easier to work with the correct negative carrier and the right lens. For Beseler 23C enlargers, there are a lot of good quality 80mm lenses and negative carriers on the used market . And as you are a subscriber, you should consider posting a "Want to Buy" thread here.

Yes, I wasn't going to try to use the 50mm for medium format. I had a feeling it wasn't going to work...but couldn't tell you why.
I looked on ebay - but didn't think about posting here. Great idea! Thanks.

Get an 80mm lens mounted on a Beseler board and a 6x6 negative carrier here at Photrio (try a “want to buy” post) or head over to the ‘bay. It will be under $100 for both and you’ll be good to go. I have El Nikkor lenses for mine and like them a lot.
Of course you can make the cardboard carrier version, but the metal ones are much less fiddly and will keep your negative pretty flat.

I learned quite some time ago to do it right the first time (with some things). Otherwise, frustration grows out of control. Thanks for the suggestion - I'll post over on the want to buy section.

 

[M Carter]

I learned quite some time ago to do it right the first time (with some things). Otherwise, frustration grows out of control. Thanks for the suggestion - I'll post over on the want to buy section.

Beseler 23C parts are very very common on eBay; neg carriers and lens boards should be easy to find. I'm 99% certain that Beseler 4x5 and 23C lens boards are the same parts. Neg carriers are unique though.

Also, the EL Nikkor is one of the only 80mm enlarging lenses that will do 6x7 and 6x8 negs, and it's as good a lens as you can find, so you could future-proof with one of those. Try for a good vs. hobbyist lens, Nikkor, Schneider Componon-S or Rodesntock Rodagon - you should find one for under a hundred bucks, but you'll have a rest-of-your-life lens and you'll be glad if you start printing larger sizes!

You don't necessarily need to find a lens mounted to a Beseler board - but you do need a board with the correct hole for your lens (chances are it's a 39mm opening), and hopefully you can find a lens that includes the locking ring. There's a good chance whatever lens you buy will fit on your existing board, though it's nice to not have to swap lenses onto boards when you change formats. The correct board is still manufactured, BTW. To swap lenses it's really good to have a spanner tool, you don't need a professional one, under twenty bucks, and handy for all sorts of photo-related things. On the back-side of the lens board/lens assembly, you'll see a ring around the rear element of the lens that screws onto threads that portrude from the lens body and pass through the hole in the board. The locking ring will have 2 slots (or possibly 2 pin holes) - you adjust the spanner to align with the ring and loosen it - once you screw it off, the lens is free and you can mount another lens in the board, and tighten the ring with the spanner. If both lenses share the same thread, you can use the same locking ring.

If you end up with a 50 and an 80 each on their own boards, keep in mind darkrooms are usually kind of humid - so find a tupperware container or a heavy zip loc bag that will fit the lens with the board attached, and save those dessicant packets that come with new clothes/wallets/purses and toss them in. Best of luck!

 

[John Galt]

It turns out I mis-spoke about reconfiguring the condensers. I use a diffusion head on mine and remembered setting up the condenser incorrectly.

Page 3 of this manual should give you all the information you need:
http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/enlargers/beseler/Beseler_23C_II.pdf

For some reason I had a recollection of needing to flip one of the condenser lenses over but sometimes my brain just gets soft....

Pentode, I may be wrong but pretty sure I remember that was necessary with my old Omega B-22 . . . .

 

[John Koehrer]

Pentode, I may be wrong but pretty sure I remember that was necessary with my old Omega B-22 . . . .

You're right about the B22. But as noted earlier the condenser 23C has the adjustable condenser assembly.

 

[mgb74]

M Carter is correct; the Bes 23c and 45 use the same lensboards but not the same neg carriers. Omega B8 carriers will work in the 23c, but may require some filing.

 

[Pentode]

Pentode, I may be wrong but pretty sure I remember that was necessary with my old Omega B-22 . . . .

I trust your memory more than mine. I only used my 23C with the condenser head for about a year and that was many years ago.*
I also used public darkrooms for a while during the 1990's and may very well have used B-22s during that time.

*I gave that 23C to my brother-in-law sometime in the mid-late '90s and he bought a color head for it. He eventually got a bigger enlarger and gave the 23c back to me and I've kept the color head on it, so the condenser head is but a memory these days. I have it stored away in a closet somewhere.