Printing color at home.....

CMoore · Aug 31, 2018

.....how many of you Guys/Gals print color in your home darkroom.
I have considered...more like day-dreamed...about trying it many times..
Anybody have a link, to a Youtube video, that gives a good Tutorial/Description of printing color.?
I am mostly curious at this point. Not sure how practical it will be...For Me...to deal with learning and having the stuff for printing color at home.
Thank You

wiltw · Aug 31, 2018

I have printed both color negs and color transparency in a home darkroom about 20 years ago, but have not done it more recently.
I am on the SF Peninsula, I see you are in/near Fairfield.

sissysphoto · Aug 31, 2018

I haven't done much color printing, but I have found that if temperature is too warm the pictures take on a yellowish tint. And too cold, a bluish tint. Temperature is everything. But it's not so critical as to require a government nuclear lab to get it right. Just a Beseler drum and a decent thermometer and either ice or hot water depending on the season, to bring tools and chemistry to temperature.

MattKing · Aug 31, 2018

The standard colour print process - RA-4 - can be done at high quality at room temperature by simply changing the development time, so it is a fairly straightforward task. Photo Engineer is one of the people on this site who does that regularly.
You do need to work in what is essentially absolute darkness, but with some practice that is easy.
Print processing tubes make it fairly simple, and there is a decent variety of those on the used market. I have several, but I use them as much for quick black and white prints as for colour.
Unfortunately my favourite Kodak papers are only available in rolls.
One advantage is that the paper is cheaper than the black and white darkroom print papers.

RPC · Aug 31, 2018

The processing is as easy as b&w. Since it can be done at typical room temperatures, say 68-75F, it can be done easily in trays, which IMHO. is preferable to drums or processors. The only part that is difficult for some is learning to color balance the prints, but that becomes easier with experience.

CMoore · Aug 31, 2018

MattKing said:
.
One advantage is that the paper is cheaper than the black and white darkroom print papers.

1. I have Read/Heard this repeatedly.
Not sure why...i guess color just seems like it would be more expensive.......Why is color paper cheaper.?

2. Yes, i am in Suisun City...right next to Fairfield.

3. Thanks for the Replys/Info.
I will do a search on Youtube, but.....does anybody have a link to a decent, beginner, Color Tutorial.?
Thanks Again

RPC · Aug 31, 2018

I believe the price difference is due to higher sliver content of b&w paper, but I may be wrong. Also, there is less overall demand for b&w paper.

MattKing · Aug 31, 2018

CMoore said:
Not sure why...i guess color just seems like it would be more expensive.......Why is color paper cheaper.?

The volume of colour paper produced by Kodak Alaris, Fuji and any of the smaller manufacturers that might be left (Mitsubishi?) likely dwarfs the production volumes for black and white paper.
You need to remember that almost all of the colour paper is used in the remaining commercial labs that use it, whereas a significant portion of the black and white paper is used by individual users.
Each of the Costcos around here probably use as much colour paper each day as I will use black and white paper this year (or even these 5 years).

awty · Aug 31, 2018

Try it Mr Moore and inspire me. I have all the right tools and equipment, just not the chemistry or looked into it much. Seems to be a bit of negativity with it, but when I look at colour pictures that are done well on paper it always look soooo good.

CMoore · Aug 31, 2018

What The........
You shot A LOT of excellent frames, my Australian friend.
This is just ONE Of Them. I did not even get past your first page.
.......an Impressive portfolio of pointing your camera at stuff.
Well Done...!!!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144284773@N06/29111107317/

Photo Engineer · Aug 31, 2018

I do color from 4x5 up to 16x20 in my darkroom. I use either a tray or a Jobo, and use either 68F or 100F for processing. I do my production work in batches of about 24 prints in a single session. It is actually easier than B&W for me.

At Kodak, I used to use a Calumet Junior for up to 20x24 prints in a basket with the older, longer process.

The key for filtration is to add the color to the filter pack that is most prominent in the photo. If it is too red, add red filtration and etc. Adjust filtration slowly and as you go up in filtration, increase exposure time. In a while, it becomes as intuitive as B&W.

PE

pentaxuser · Aug 31, 2018

MattKing said:
You do need to work in what is essentially absolute darkness, but with some practice that is easy..

My experience is that a DUKA safelight on a low setting is OK for both drum loading such as the Jobo drums and for Nova slot processing. In slot processing the room and the paper continues to be illuminated by the sodium light but it is true that all of the paper is "shaded by the slot which is vertical and even the leading edge is probably a centimetre or so below the surface.

If people find that they can work in total darkness then fine and it saves the cost of a DUKA or other makes of sodium light but there are safe RA4 safelight if people want to print but find total darkness just too much.

pentaxuser

Chan Tran · Aug 31, 2018

CMoore said:
1. I have Read/Heard this repeatedly.
Not sure why...i guess color just seems like it would be more expensive.......Why is color paper cheaper.?

2. Yes, i am in Suisun City...right next to Fairfield.

3. Thanks for the Replys/Info.
I will do a search on Youtube, but.....does anybody have a link to a decent, beginner, Color Tutorial.?
Thanks Again

Color paper is cheaper but the chemical is expensive especially if you do 1 shot processing which I always did.

1kgcoffee · Aug 31, 2018

Chan Tran said:
Color paper is cheaper but the chemical is expensive especially if you do 1 shot processing which I always did.

Are you Mr Tran of Vintage Visuals?

Anyways it's true the chemicals aren't cheap but that's buying small kits. A Kodak ra-4 kit will do hundreds or possibly thousands of prints. Alternatively you could mix up your own cd3 but I'm not sure how home brew would work.

CMoore. I love colour printing, highly recommend you take the dive. Buy some Kodak endura, if you're interested look up my thread on printing with the lifx bulb, or you'll have to get a dichro head. It's not difficult at all and the prints have a sublime beauty you can't get from inkjet

CMoore · Aug 31, 2018

Photo Engineer said:
..... It is actually easier than B&W for me.
In a while, it becomes as intuitive as B&W.

Again.....i have Read/Heard this sentiment many times. But i have never had it explained to me.
Yes, i am NOT a professional printer, just a hobbyist. But my prints are "important" to me.
With B&W i can Easily work under red light. Unless the room is above 80 degree Fahrenheit (i typically print at night) i do not even monitor the temp of the chemicals.
With color, i have to work in the dark and temps are much more critical.
How does THAT, frequently, become As Easy or Easier than printing black and white.?

RPC · Aug 31, 2018

CMoore said:
With color, i have to work in the dark and temps are much more critical.
How does THAT, frequently, become As Easy or Easier than printing black and white.?

Unlike color film, the exact temperature is not very critical, especially since it can be done at room temperatures, where there is several degrees of leeway. With b&w, you have developer, stop bath and fixer. With RA-4, you have developer, stop bath, blix. The same number of steps, for about the same length of time. I routinely eliminate the stop bath with no problems so it is only two steps! (some will not advise that, however.) In my opinion the Kodak chemistry is reasonably priced. Both color balancing and working in the dark become easy with experience. A safelight is made that can be used, and using drums can eliminate some of the working in the dark.

Chan Tran · Aug 31, 2018

1kgcoffee said:
Are you Mr Tran of Vintage Visuals?

Anyways it's true the chemicals aren't cheap but that's buying small kits. A Kodak ra-4 kit will do hundreds or possibly thousands of prints. Alternatively you could mix up your own cd3 but I'm not sure how home brew would work.

CMoore. I love colour printing, highly recommend you take the dive. Buy some Kodak endura, if you're interested look up my thread on printing with the lifx bulb, or you'll have to get a dichro head. It's not difficult at all and the prints have a sublime beauty you can't get from inkjet

No I am not who you think I am. Give me an example of a kit that can do thousands of prints?

Nodda Duma · Aug 31, 2018

CMoore said:
Again.....i have Read/Heard this sentiment many times. But i have never had it explained to me.
Yes, i am NOT a professional printer, just a hobbyist. But my prints are "important" to me.
With B&W i can Easily work under red light. Unless the room is above 80 degree Fahrenheit (i typically print at night) i do not even monitor the temp of the chemicals.
With color, i have to work in the dark and temps are much more critical.
How does THAT, frequently, become As Easy or Easier than printing black and white.?

Experience.

Btw here is the pertinent link https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/room-temp-ra-4-in-trays.135546/page-2

pentaxuser · Aug 31, 2018

CMoore, see my post #12. As far as temperature is concerned, if it is 2 mins at about 21C and say 45 secs at 35C then it follows that it can be done anywhere between this range, surely?

The big difference is in getting the colour filtration right and this can take a bit of work, I admit, but there are analysers which can help a lot and if most of your negs were taken in similar light and contain a range of colours such that none predominate and in most pictures there is such a range then once you have got one neg right the rest will follow.

It is mainly due to trying to get the colours right that I appreciate that in the early stages you can get an acceptable B&W print easier than you can get a colour print. Yes, it is true that even a poor B&W print can look just about OK but failing to eliminate casts in a colour print can make it stand out like a sore thumb.

pentaxuser

jim10219 · Aug 31, 2018

Get a Kodak color print viewing filter set. It'll make color casts easier to deal with when starting out. That's what I use.

Photo Engineer · Aug 31, 2018

CMoore said:
Again.....i have Read/Heard this sentiment many times. But i have never had it explained to me.
Yes, i am NOT a professional printer, just a hobbyist. But my prints are "important" to me.
With B&W i can Easily work under red light. Unless the room is above 80 degree Fahrenheit (i typically print at night) i do not even monitor the temp of the chemicals.
With color, i have to work in the dark and temps are much more critical.
How does THAT, frequently, become As Easy or Easier than printing black and white.?

Do you think I started as a pro? I started this when I was 12 years old, doing E1 at home, and then doing Paper and film when I was 18, with the LONG processes. Some were sold commercially.

The current process is Develop, blix, wash. I do extra wash until the water is clear from the reddish color. No stop is needed unless you wish to reuse the blix over and over. If you do, then Develop, stop, blix wash and use a white vinegar stop. Dilute it to about 2%.

PE

DREW WILEY · Aug 31, 2018

RA4 is pretty darn easy. Yes, it needs a decent colorhead, consistent chem temp, and reasonably fresh chemistry. And yeah, you'll probably make a mistake or two.
So what. Losing a few strips of paper is a lot less painful than topping off a car battery with ordinary water. Everything has a learning curve.

mshchem · Aug 31, 2018

RA4 is a miracle. When I started printing color it was Ektacolor Professional fiber base color paper. EK had just released CP-5 process , only 9 minutes or so. Everything had to be dead on time and temp, and yes color paper was 2 or 3 times more dollars than black and white.

RA4 develops to a end point at 95 to 100 F you can develop for 45 sec or 90 sec. Both prints will look the same . I use the ancient Kodak rapid color processors, because they are so fast and no tubes to clean or tanks to replenish.

But as others state here you don't need anything other than a tray , a quart of developer and a quart of blix to get started . I've always used a stop. I wouldn't use a safelight I use Thomas safelights with the color filters. Totally unnecessary.

Get a Kodak color dataguide ,do ring around prints. Don't change films ( pick Portra ) once you find the correct filter pack it shouldn't change like it used to . I use Fuji crystal archive paper , it's beautiful paper and it's still available in cut sheets. The Kodak professional papers are incredible, but I haven't used Kodak since they quit cutting sheets.

Optical color prints from medium or large format negatives are stunning, way better IMHO than prints done with minilab digital printers.

I recently showed a young man how to print color, he's spending hours in the darkroom, loves it.
He called me the other night and said how amazed he was at how once he dialed in the filtration and exposures it was so easy.

1kgcoffee · Sep 1, 2018

Chan Tran said:
No I am not who you think I am. Give me an example of a kit that can do thousands of prints?

Im using the Kodak RA-4 developer and blix kits. About $200-250, I can't remember. I've done hundreds of prints, from 6x10 to 11x14 and not even a quarter of the way through. These chemicals have a good shelf life and can squeeze out more prints than advertised. One could also mix up homebrew. It is more expensive than B&W for the chemicals but the paper is so cheap, I find the cost per print to be lower.

1kgcoffee · Sep 1, 2018

CMoore, consider this. I try to be optimistic but who knows how long ra-4 will exist for. There may not be an option in the future to do this sort of printing.

Printing color at home.....

CMoore

wiltw

sissysphoto

MattKing

Moderator

RPC

CMoore

RPC

MattKing

Moderator

awty

CMoore

Photo Engineer

pentaxuser

Chan Tran

1kgcoffee

CMoore

RPC

Chan Tran

Nodda Duma

pentaxuser

jim10219

Photo Engineer

DREW WILEY

mshchem

1kgcoffee

1kgcoffee

Printing color at home.....

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