Printing black & white with color enlarger

[RalphLambrecht]

I have been doing contact prints and will now be doing enlarger prints in black and white. I just came into a color 4x5 enlarger, Durst Laborator 1000 with a Pavelle 401. I have been using Ilford contrast filters when I contact print. How might I use the contrast filters with this color enlarger? Ideas please. If I'm correct, some people use the color filters of the color enlarger as contrast filters? I would appreciate any input you may have.
Thanks!
Jon

Yes, you can certainly do that.Actually, I prefer a colour enlarger for B&W enlarging because, with multi-contrast paper you have the most contrast control this way.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yes, you can certainly do that.Actually, I prefer a colour enlarger for B&W enlarging because, with multi-contrast paper you have the most contrast control this way.

Essentially infinite choices.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Start with white light (all three filter settings at zero), which is roughly equivalent to Grade 3. If you want less contrast, dial in some Y. If you want more contrast, dial in some M instead. It's that simple! With some practice using test strips, you'll catch on quickly. No need to worry about what settings hypothetically equal what "grade". It's a continuum either way.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Start with white light (all three filter settings at zero), which is roughly equivalent to Grade 3. If you want less contrast, dial in some Y. If you want more contrast, dial in some M instead. It's that simple! With some practice using test strips, you'll catch on quickly. No need to worry about what settings hypothetically equal what "grade". It's a continuum either way.

correct but with little effort you can calibrate it very precisely.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Personally i would just use a stepwedge and colourhead to find what grades you can get out of your head and paper combination. Takes 10 minutes and $20 or whatever a stouffer step wedge costs

I'm with Craig. I did this years ago. Very helpful. Or you could just split grade print, which I prefer.

 

[BMbikerider]

I don't know if it is the same over in the US, but in UK, with every packet of Ilford, or Kentmere paper and possibly some of the lesser used varieties, they provide a guide as to the filtration needed to get grades from 0 to 4.5. They do not go from 00 to the full 5 because the filtration on most enlargers do not have the required filtration. They give filtration values for Kodak, Durst and Leitz and V35 and most of the available enlargers are included under the lists.

When using Ilford paper they go one step further and include values for dual filtration using both the yellow and magenta filters in unison to maintain exposure times the same, right through from Grade 1.5 to 4.5. This does mean some of the exposures for large prints from 35mm can be a little long, but the time savin is not having to make seperate tests for different grades. (I do believe that enlargers that have 'Durst' value filtration it is possible to get a full grade 5.)

There is absolutely no need to make separate tests for each grade except the ones at the end of the range.

When using a colour head you have the flexibility of making your own decision what grade would be best. So if a print with grade 2 is just a but too 'soft' and 2.5 is a little too 'hard' you can set the filtration somewhere in between the values - great for managing highlights and shadows

 

[Craig75]

Start with white light (all three filter settings at zero), which is roughly equivalent to Grade 3. If you want less contrast, dial in some Y. If you want more contrast, dial in some M instead. It's that simple! With some practice using test strips, you'll catch on quickly. No need to worry about what settings hypothetically equal what "grade". It's a continuum either way.

White light on my head is grade 0. Dialling in any Y at all starts at grade 00 and gets progressively softer. Im using a durst cls70 head and no way does mine do what you describe.

At the other end its useful to know what the maximum contrast is you can pull out of yr enlarger paper developer combo as it will change as you change variables.

You can use it when/if you buy old paper to see how much contrast has been lost over time and what if anything you need to do to compensate for that.

It def has it uses in my opinion and for 10mins work and a sheet of paper its helpful in seeing what the max is you can pull out of yr set up as opposed to what manufacturer says.

 

[CMoore]

Start with white light (all three filter settings at zero), which is roughly equivalent to Grade 3. If you want less contrast, dial in some Y. If you want more contrast, dial in some M instead. It's that simple! With some practice using test strips, you'll catch on quickly. No need to worry about what settings hypothetically equal what "grade". It's a continuum either way.

I am simply a "Hobbyist" Photographer. And i am still very much a beginner.
But if it makes you feel good.....Thank You. I have been playing around with the Y and M...and your comments match what i have been observing.
It is nice to read the same findings from somebody with much more experience than myself.
At this point i am happy with everything at Zero, and doing a little burning now and then,
But at least i now know i have a rope around the basic concept of the Y and M knobs.
Thanks Again

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I don't know if it is the same over in the US, but in UK, with every packet of Ilford, or Kentmere paper and possibly some of the lesser used varieties, they provide a guide as to the filtration needed to get grades from 0 to 4.5. They do not go from 00 to the full 5 because the filtration on most enlargers do not have the required filtration. They give filtration values for Kodak, Durst and Leitz and V35 and most of the available enlargers are included under the lists.

When using Ilford paper they go one step further and include values for dual filtration using both the yellow and magenta filters in unison to maintain exposure times the same, right through from Grade 1.5 to 4.5. This does mean some of the exposures for large prints from 35mm can be a little long, but the time savin is not having to make seperate tests for different grades. (I do believe that enlargers that have 'Durst' value filtration it is possible to get a full grade 5.)

There is absolutely no need to make separate tests for each grade except the ones at the end of the range.

When using a colour head you have the flexibility of making your own decision what grade would be best. So if a print with grade 2 is just a but too 'soft' and 2.5 is a little too 'hard' you can set the filtration somewhere in between the values - great for managing highlights and shadows

the little leaflet that come with the Ilford paper are as inaccurate as the whole idea of paper 'grades'.calibrate yourself or just dial in yellow to get softer or magenta to get harder.

 

[pentaxuser]

White light on my head is grade 0. Dialling in any Y at all starts at grade 00 and gets progressively softer. Im using a durst cls70 head and no way does mine do what you describe.

I may be confused by the way you have described the way filtration works. I think you are the first person to say that white light( i.e.no filtration) is grade 0. Ilford has said that no filtration is about grade 2 as reflected in its single Y and M filtration tables. In the Ilford table for Durst enlargers with a 130M max, grade 0 is 75Y and then the grade progressively rises as you decrease Y until you get to grade 2 which is 0 filtration. To go higher you then add M

pentaxuser

 

[DREW WILEY]

I have two large-format enlargers with custom additive heads, a big commercial Durst with a subtractive colohead, and a Durst equipped with a custom high-output blue-green cold light. I also have a set of hard blue and green glass filters for over-lens split-printing. I can match contrast by any of these methods, generally with a single test strip (and obviously experience with specific papers and developers). I don't give a dingbat what "grade" the image represents. I just care for the final look, in which case the degree of development and toning can shift your concept of grade significantly. If you find that kind of factoring enjoyable, more power to you. I find it utterly redundant. If I want graded paper, I'll buy graded paper, though nearly none are left.

 

[Craig75]

I may be confused by the way you have described the way filtration works. I think you are the first person to say that white light( i.e.no filtration) is grade 0. Ilford has said that no filtration is about grade 2 as reflected in its single Y and M filtration tables. In the Ilford table for Durst enlargers with a 130M max, grade 0 is 75Y and then the grade progressively rises as you decrease Y until you get to grade 2 which is 0 filtration. To go higher you then add M

pentaxuser

mine is a cls70 head which goes up to 100m and white light gives grade 0 for me. Adding yellow softens image to way beyond grade 00. So I only use the magenta to increase or decrease contrast. It took a wedge to understand what the head was doing and what its maximum,minimum, and arbitrary midpoint settings were. It's an old head so that might be perfectly normal state of affairs.

However, I can't see the problem in seeing what the maximum contrast a head can pull out of a paper / developer combination. That info can all be fed back into how long to develop film for.

 

[pentaxuser]

However, I can't see the problem in seeing what the maximum contrast a head can pull out of a paper / developer combination. That info can all be fed back into how long to develop film for.

No I can't see the problem here either in the first sentence above. It may be that this part of your response was in response to someone else. I am not sure I follow what you mean in your second statement and I have to say that I am still puzzled by your statement that adding Y progressively, having got to grade 00 with no filtrations gets you beyond grade 00. I thought that 00 was the paper's limit. Maybe others can contribute here

pentaxuser