Print Washers and their use

Don_ih · Dec 16, 2024

Pieter12 said:
The paper (fiber) base softens, making the wet print more susceptible to damage.

Yes, soaking paper in water makes it disintegrate when you leave it long enough. There's a difference between a fairly rough flow of water in a tray with a siphon and a vertical print washer, though. The print washer is very gentle in its agitation and the flow-through isn't as rapid as in a tray. A hour in a print washer won't hurt the print, unless you're printing on paper towels.

Anyway, I let it go for about 40 minutes. I mentioned an hour in reference to the fact that it was spouting water onto my floor.

David Lingham · Dec 16, 2024

I’ve had a 16x12 Nova for a number of years, it’s permanently in place over my darkroom sink. I’ve found the hose connections do need replacing after a while with stronger aluminium jubilee screw clips. On the issue of floating prints, I use wooden cloths pegs to hold the prints in place. See picture.

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 16, 2024

I've had two vertical print washers (bought second hand). One for 11x14, and another for 20x24. Both a waste of money for me as I did not print more than a couple of prints at a time (unless I had an exhibition, then I found them somewhat beneficial). Besides that, they took up a tremendous amount of space in my tiny darkroom...and used a lot of water. Best move I ever did was getting rid of them, and going back to good old trays, and Ilford's wash method.

Paul Howell · Dec 16, 2024

mshchem said:
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IS IT LIKE THIS?? Arkay Loadmaster

It is, had it for over 40 years, I print 80% RC, so I only use it on occasion. I also used to wash film, when I would as many as 50 rolls of 35mm or 20 4X5 on a weekend outing I could wash a lot of film at once as my film washer only takes 6 rolls of 35mm.

mshchem · Dec 16, 2024

Paul Howell said:
It is, had it for over 40 years, I print 80% RC, so I only use it on occasion. I also used to wash film, when I would as many as 50 rolls of 35mm or 20 4X5 on a weekend outing I could wash a lot of film at once as my film washer only takes 6 rolls of 35mm.

I have a beautiful like new, must be 50 years old one of these. I got from a clean out of an old darkroom. Beautifully made, I need to get it setup. I have a idea of using a pump to drive the water wheel, then use a fill, dump, fill routine. I love this neat old stuff.
Pako made a giant version of one of these that was driven by an electric motor, floor standing, plumbed in.

I am curious about your method of film washing in these machines?? I suppose tumbling light weight plastic reels, with film would be possible . Would need to be very gentle.

Paul Howell · Dec 16, 2024

I just turned the water on enough to give good flow but not enough to turn the drum. The washer is light when empty, just bulkily in terms of size. My darkroom is a converted bathroom, I keep the washer under the enlarger table, set it up then take it down. I use a outdoor faucet valve that screws into the shower pipe and I use the faucet valve to control the water supply. I do have a slot archival washer as well, but when filled with water it so heavy that would damage the fiberglass shower stall, so I only use it outdoors on my patio.

logan2z · Dec 16, 2024

Pieter12 said:
An hour is over-washing. Fiber-based paper can be damaged by that. Ilford recommends 30-45 minutes, even specifies 45 minutes max for their Art 300 paper.

FWIW, here is the wash time recommendation from the Nova Washmaster ECO instructions that I have:

I do see that the Ilford MG FB data sheet says 30-45 minutes, but I've always washed it for 60 mins as specified by Nova (for 20 deg C or less) and haven't experienced any damage. I may try cutting the time back a bit and seeing if the paper is still washed sufficiently.

Don_ih · Dec 16, 2024

From what I read, somewhere or other, the lower the temperature, the longer it will take to wash out the fixer unless you use a wash aid, in which case it doesn't matter how cold the water is (well, it can't actually be ice....), the wash time will be reduced to about 20 minutes.

logan2z · Dec 16, 2024

Don_ih said:
From what I read, somewhere or other, the lower the temperature, the longer it will take to wash out the fixer unless you use a wash aid, in which case it doesn't matter how cold the water is (well, it can't actually be ice....), the wash time will be reduced to about 20 minutes.

That's consistent with what I've read as well.

Sirius Glass · Dec 16, 2024

Don_ih said:
From what I read, somewhere or other, the lower the temperature, the longer it will take to wash out the fixer unless you use a wash aid, in which case it doesn't matter how cold the water is (well, it can't actually be ice....), the wash time will be reduced to about 20 minutes.

However if the water temperature is too warm, the emulsion will lift off the paper.

How does one use Hypo Clearing Agent in a print washer? Use it in a tray before putting the print in the print washer?

Pieter12 · Dec 16, 2024

Sirius Glass said:
However if the water temperature is too warm, the emulsion will lift off the paper.

How does one use Hypo Clearing Agent in a print washer? Use it in a tray before putting the print in the print washer?

Yes. In a tray for 3-5minutes. I usually pour a few tablespoons into the washer, too.

logan2z · Dec 16, 2024

Sirius Glass said:
How does one use Hypo Clearing Agent in a print washer?

The Nova print washer that I have has a slot dedicated to hypo clear. But it's more typical to insert a print into a tray of hypo clear before inserting the print into the washer.

mshchem · Dec 16, 2024

I wash everything at 70°F. I'm a habitual hypo clearing agent user. In a tray. I use a slot washer. You don't need to spend a bunch of money on a washer, and if you print RC all you need is a couple trays.

Paul Howell · Dec 16, 2024

Living in the low desert, in the summer I've washed FB and RC at 90 degrees, Foma seems to holds up to the hot temps, but I use Perma Wash to reduce wash time as much as possible. I also use hypo residual check to make sure my prints are hypo clear.

Sirius Glass · Dec 16, 2024

Pieter12 said:
Yes. In a tray for 3-5minutes. I usually pour a few tablespoons into the washer, too.

logan2z said:
The Nova print washer that I have has a slot dedicated to hypo clear. But it's more typical to insert a print into a tray of hypo clear before inserting the print into the washer.

Thank you.

Don_ih · Dec 16, 2024

Pieter12 said:
Yes. In a tray for 3-5minutes.

I do the same. I take the paper from the fixer, put it in a tray, rinse it a few times under running water, then move the print into a tray with hypo clear.

Pieter12 · Dec 17, 2024

Don_ih said:
Yes, soaking paper in water makes it disintegrate when you leave it long enough. There's a difference between a fairly rough flow of water in a tray with a siphon and a vertical print washer, though. The print washer is very gentle in its agitation and the flow-through isn't as rapid as in a tray. A hour in a print washer won't hurt the print, unless you're printing on paper towels.

Anyway, I let it go for about 40 minutes. I mentioned an hour in reference to the fact that it was spouting water onto my floor.

Washing Ilford Art 300 too long leads to the emulsion separating from the base, especially at the edges.

Don_ih · Dec 17, 2024

Pieter12 said:
Washing Ilford Art 300 too long leads to the emulsion separating from the base, especially at the edges.

Yes, that paper is a bit of a special case. But it would also be easy to not wash it enough, given how porous the surface is. It also stains in fixer if you don't leave it in the stop bath for long enough (and plain water is not a good enough stop bath).

That said, I wash it the same amount as other papers and it doesn't show any sign of damage.

snusmumriken · Dec 17, 2024

With Ilford Multigrade FB, the only time I’ve had an over-washing issue was when I left some prints soaking in water overnight. The emulsion started to frill away from the base at the edges. Even that wasn’t fatal: once dry, I trimmed the margins off and the prints became as normal. I dry-mounted them and they are now about 25 years old.

Print Washers and their use

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