Print color negs on B&W paper?

[vpwphoto]

I did make B+W prints from Color Negs often enough in the 1990's.
I gave up on panalure... just used Polycontrast and reached for the #3.5, 4 or 5 filters.

 

[jeffreyg]

After very many years of printing B&W and never having tried to print color negatives on B&W paper I decided to try one this morning. I printed a Kodak Portra 400NC ( 2 1/4 ) negative on both Ilford mutigrade fiber warm tone paper and on some old Brilliant variable contrast paper I've had sitting around. My light source is an Aristo VCL 4500. The settings I used were: split printing mode switch in the "on" position, the color selection switch in the blue/off position and brightness setting at 4.5 contrast for half the exposure, then the other half of the exposure time in the blue/green position at 4.0 contrast. The results were very very close to what I would expect from a B&W negative. Quite a full tonal range and no noticeable grain albeit it was an 8x10 print. I think with a little more effort I could make a print that would exactly match a B&W negative.

I just thought I would throw this out for those of you with Aristo lamps.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

 

[Sirius Glass]

The problem is not the light source. As PE noted on variable contrast paper, the color of the image on the negative changes the contrast on the paper where that color is printed. Better results could be gained by use of grade papers.

Steve

 

[jeffreyg]

Steve,

I understand your comment. When I made test prints at a single contrast ie. 5.0 or 4.0 and one color lamp I did not get the same results or tonal range as I did with split contrast - 1/2 with blue and 1/2 with blue/green. I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that I would not get as good a result with a single grade paper ? I was just trying this for the first time and don't use graded paper anymore. I have been using the VCL4500 since the original Oriental graded papers were not available years ago. Once I started with the Aristo lamp I stuck with it and have been very pleased. I'm on the list for replacement bulbs when they are available --- just in case mine go before I do.

Jeff

 

[jvo]

panalure

i'd pm jeff blackwell, get the panalure - if the paper is good, you will not be disappointed

 

[MattKing]

Steve,

I understand your comment. When I made test prints at a single contrast ie. 5.0 or 4.0 and one color lamp I did not get the same results or tonal range as I did with split contrast - 1/2 with blue and 1/2 with blue/green. I would assume (perhaps incorrectly) that I would not get as good a result with a single grade paper ? I was just trying this for the first time and don't use graded paper anymore. I have been using the VCL4500 since the original Oriental graded papers were not available years ago. Once I started with the Aristo lamp I stuck with it and have been very pleased. I'm on the list for replacement bulbs when they are available --- just in case mine go before I do.

Jeff

Thinking out loud here ...

If one is using multigrade paper, it is sensitive to blue light (in one layer of the emulsion) and green light (in another layer of the emulsion). It lacks sensitivity to red light.

So as you are working from a negative, which is made up of colours which are complementary to the original scene:

1) The blue sensitive layer in the paper emulsion will be affected most by blue dyes in the negative which are the result of yellow parts of the original scene;
2) The green sensitive layer in the paper emulsion will be affected most by green dyes in the negative which are the result of magenta parts of the original scene; and
3) If there were a red sensitive layer in the paper emulsion it would be affected most by red dyes in the negative which would have been the result of cyan parts of the original scene. As there are no such dyes in the paper, cyan (blue/green) parts of the original scene will not be well represented (they will be too dark?).

 

[PVia]

Lith printing from color negs opens up a whole range of possibilities...

 

[traveller]

Lith printing from color negs opens up a whole range of possibilities...

I have to agree, got some great results

 

[2F/2F]

You can, but the tonality is abnormal for a b/w print IMO. You may like it for the odd shot or two, but I'd say that in general it looks "strange."

I also do not think that this is generally better to do digitally, and it is certainly not cheaper. You need a scanner. Of decent quality, at least a couple of hundred bucks. I sold my Nikon Coolscan recently for $700 cash, and it is not even a high-end scanner. Then you need a computer. And software. And how much time are you going to spend scanning and Photoshopping? Then the big one; how are you going to get a fiber print? A fiber Lightjet will cost you about $50 just for one 8x10 copy. How long will you wait for that print to be mailed to you if you are not near a lab that does this? How much are you willing to pay for copies?

On the other hand, the analog route is simple, relatively quick, cheap, and better in an archival sense. I think that people must say digital is better so often usually because they just don't know how to do it all analog. All you need to do is print that color neg on to a sheet of panchomatic b/w film, and develop the positive for a lot of continuous tone. It's about $2 a sheet, if that. How much does a 4x5 enlarger cost? A few hundred bucks for a decent one, at most. You can even use litho film, which is ultra cheap, though it has the same problem as b/w paper: weird tonality from color materials. You then enlarge that 4x5 continuous tone positive onto a sheet of litho film (or pan film) the size you want your print to be, then contact print. Or you can use another sheet of 4x5 to make the negative from the positive, and then enlarge that whenever you want onto whatever size paper you want. You're probably talking about three to four hours of darkroom work, about $10 to $20 worth of materials and equipment usage, and you end up with a neg you can print at any time in the future, at any size, in a run of as many copies as you want, with all the archival benefits of film. So, less time, less money, and a better result the analog way.

 

[Sirius Glass]

2F/2F pointed out that the alternative paths are a lot of work and expensive. Would it really kill you to just print the color negative on color paper?

Steve