Prices on Medium Format Film Gear

[Pieter12]

Some people just buy stuff to try it out and return it if don't like it. So I can see a no return sale. Frankly, I don't know how companies selling new products with guaranteed return policies make any money at all. How do they handle a new camera that is returned? It's not new any more. How do they re-sell it?

Open box or demo.

 

[Pieter12]

It doesn't really matter either way. If a seller says 'no returns' and the item you receive is not as described, eBay/PayPal will ensure you are refunded.

I don't know why eBay sellers bother with this 'no returns' thing. It just turns off potential buyers (well, it turns me off anyway) since the seller is essentially saying that they are not willing to stand behind what they're selling.

Some folks don't read the descriptions fully, or examine the photos. The might make assumptions based on vague descriptions of condition. The seller is basically saying, you get what you see and take your chances.

 

[braxus]

With stuff I've sold, especially electronics for computers, etc, I don't accept returns. Mainly because if they install it wrong and fry it, they try to send it back to you not in the condition you sent it to them. It also weeds out scammers a bit, especially when I won't accept BIN's from zero feedback buyers.

 

[wiltw]

Because at the time no one was selling one on Ebay in North America. Everyone knows Japan inflates their prices because often they are the only option. If they listed them on an auction instead of Buy It Now, they wouldn't often get the prices their BIN list for.

Consider that in Japan there is a considerable market on used gear, and their prices reflect that demand!
If selling same goods to non-Japanese (i.e; US bargain hunters) users, their requested prices may seem to be unreasonable high.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Consider that in Japan there is a considerable market on used gear, and their prices reflect that demand!
If selling same goods to non-Japanese (i.e; US bargain hunters) users, their requested prices may seem to be unreasonable high.

And keep in mind that nobody is forcing you to buy something if you think the price is too high, especially if it's something you want and not something you need.

I've watched many high-priced BIN items sit for months without selling. Apparently many Japanese dealers don't feel a lot of pressure to make a sale. Many seem happy to let listings just sit, and I always wonder how they're making a living. Some will occasionally drop a price, sometimes substantially, you just have to be patient and vigilant.

You also need to be very clear to distinguish want versus need. If it's something you absolutely must have for some assignment, then you pay the necessary price and move on. If it's something you want, maybe you can afford to wait. And you should never look back as the market changes all the time and both supply and prices go up and down (usually in opposite directions). An item was worth, to you, what you paid for it when you bought it, all things considered. If the market price changes later, well, that's life.

 

[logan2z]

Some folks don't read the descriptions fully, or examine the photos. The might make assumptions based on vague descriptions of condition. The seller is basically saying, you get what you see and take your chances.

Sure, if you get what you see and it's as described then you have no basis for a return. But if it's not as described you will be refunded despite the 'no returns' policy. In the case of a camera, getting what you see in photos may still not be a working camera.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Consider that in Japan there is a considerable market on used gear, and their prices reflect that demand!
If selling same goods to non-Japanese (i.e; US bargain hunters) users, their requested prices may seem to be unreasonable high.

Could it be you can get it for less if you live in Japan and visit the store directly and make a deal and they charge less? When I was stationed in Japan (OK fifty years ago), I bought a Nikon F Photomoc T for $189 and it was selling for almost $500 in America.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

And keep in mind that nobody is forcing you to buy something if you think the price is too high, especially if it's something you want and not something you need.

I've watched many high-priced BIN items sit for months without selling. Apparently many Japanese dealers don't feel a lot of pressure to make a sale. Many seem happy to let listings just sit, and I always wonder how they're making a living. Some will occasionally drop a price, sometimes substantially, you just have to be patient and vigilant.

You also need to be very clear to distinguish want versus need. If it's something you absolutely must have for some assignment, then you pay the necessary price and move on. If it's something you want, maybe you can afford to wait. And you should never look back as the market changes all the time and both supply and prices go up and down (usually in opposite directions). An item was worth, to you, what you paid for it when you bought it, all things considered. If the market price changes later, well, that's life.

Offer less than they;re asking. I did that once and got $75 knocked off a lens.

 

[gone]

I wouldn't buy from them, that would just make me part of the problem, and I'm not. If I sell gear, it's at fair prices.

While it may be true that no one is forced to buy these overpriced items from the Japanese sellers, it's also true that their ads monopolize the eBay pages. Page after page of basically the same items, all priced about the same, and it's price fixing pure and simple. That is true whether someone buys it or not. It's illegal in most countries, and highly unethical.

The market will decide the prices, but not if they're rigged.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I wouldn't buy from them, that would just make me part of the problem, and I'm not. If I sell gear, it's at fair prices.

While it may be true that no one is forced to buy these overpriced items from the Japanese sellers, it's also true that their ads monopolize the eBay pages. Page after page of basically the same items, all priced about the same, and it's price fixing pure and simple. That is true whether someone buys it or not. It's illegal in most countries, and highly unethical.

The market will decide the prices, but not if they're rigged.

So dozens of little Japanese retail stores conspire and call each other and rigged the prices. And you know this how? Don't you think competition enters the process at all?

 

[abruzzi]

in the eBay search results, is easy to filter by location. If you're a US based buyer, you can easily select "US Only" or "North America". I usually do that first, because US based sellers tend to do auctions more often than Japanese sellers. And auctions are a better way to see what the real value is (100 BIN listing for $500 doesn't mean the item is worth $500).

 

[Dan Daniel]

So dozens of little Japanese retail stores conspire and call each other and rigged the prices. And you know this how? Don't you think competition enters the process at all?

Not sure if this is 'proof' of conspiracy, but you will find the same item- same serial numbers, sometimes same photos- listed two or more times under different sellers. All Japanese, all 'EXC+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++!!!!' And all within 10-50 dollars of each other.

Make of that what you will...

 

[abruzzi]

So dozens of little Japanese retail stores conspire and call each other and rigged the prices. And you know this how? Don't you think competition enters the process at all?

While I agree with you that it isn't what I'd call price fixing, since all these sellers are independant and there's little evidence of collusion, there is a lemming effect. They seem to price based on other's prices on eBay. Going back to the Bronica PG 80mm, they were selling for a couple hundred on eBay, then one guy got it in his head that rarity=expensive, and priced it at $1500. Now they all do, even though I doubt anyone has every bought it at that price (nothing special about the lens, just one whose production started neat to when the entire line was discontinued.) But the lemming effect affects all sellers, even ones in the US or Canada.

But even within listings of 50 similarly priced items there is a bell curve of pricing, so good deals can be got from Japan, and I'd say maye 70% of my large format lenses have been purchased from Japanese sellers. And I've gotten some great deals.

the only way to (mostly) avoid the lemming effect is an auction because the buyers set the price. Buy buyers are subject as well. I recently bought a bunch of Horseman 6x9 backs for 6x9 cameras for a trip I'm taking in a few weeks. I found two in Japan that had fast shipping, so I bought them for about $115 each. There was one auction in the USA as well, and I knew that, unless the sellfer took forever to ship, I'd receive it in time, so I made my max bid, basically what the Japanese ones sold for. and wouldn't you know, with shipping, that's what I ended up paying. (the japanese ones were $115 with free FedEx shipping) So now I have three 6x9 holders on the way to go with the 3 holders I already have.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If I was going to sell my large format lenses that I bought from Japan originally, I would go to the Japanese eBay Pages now and see what they're asking for and be a lemming and basically use their numbers. I have no idea what these lenses are worth today since I'm not in the business. So I have to depend on others basically to set my price.

Before the internet, the department stores used to have Shoppers who would go to the different stores to see what their competitors were charging so they would know where to set their prices. It's not exactly price-fixing, but it's always nice to know what the competition is charging.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Before the internet, Shutterbug was the price guide for gear.
Del's in Santa Barbara, CA was the barometer for Nikon gear pricing.
Plus ça change....

It also appears to me that there are camera stores (sort of like warehouses) in Japan, and multiple independent Ebay sellers list their items, perhaps selling on commission...but that's speculation on my part, I could be wrong.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Frankly I didn't know what the real value of the camera was when I bought it. Only after trying to resell it, did I find out what people were willing to pay on my side of the pond. I would have waited if I knew I could have gotten it cheaper. Not long after I bought, my camera store was selling the same thing used also with the 110 lens included for what I paid for the body only from Japan.

It is better if one can shop around and get a sense of the prices before buying, otherwise it is a crap shoot: sometimes you do better than others.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It doesn't really matter either way. If a seller says 'no returns' and the item you receive is not as described, eBay/PayPal will ensure you are refunded.

I don't know why eBay sellers bother with this 'no returns' thing. It just turns off potential buyers (well, it turns me off anyway) since the seller is essentially saying that they are not willing to stand behind what they're selling.

I agree.

 

[abruzzi]

If I was going to sell my large format lenses that I bought from Japan originally, I would go to the Japanese eBay Pages now and see what they're asking for and be a lemming and basically use their numbers. I have no idea what these lenses are worth today since I'm not in the business.

absolutely, but make sure you check sold listings. Some prices on eBay are what I’d call aspirational.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Before the internet, Shutterbug was the price guide for gear.
Del's in Santa Barbara, CA was the barometer for Nikon gear pricing.
Plus ça change....

It also appears to me that there are camera stores (sort of like warehouses) in Japan, and multiple independent Ebay sellers list their items, perhaps selling on commission...but that's speculation on my part, I could be wrong.

You might be right. I had asked a couple of sellers in Japan if they would check the shutters and they told me the lenses are in the depot and they have no way of checking.

 

[eurekaiv]

With stuff I've sold, especially electronics for computers, etc, I don't accept returns. Mainly because if they install it wrong and fry it, they try to send it back to you not in the condition you sent it to them. It also weeds out scammers a bit, especially when I won't accept BIN's from zero feedback buyers.

I don't know how you'd get away with this. I refuse to sell on eBay after they forced me to "take back" some fluorescent replacement LED bulbs that the buyer ruined, even after he provided a photo showing them "not working" which had all the evidence that he failed to follow the instructions and wired them incorrectly. They just said "he wants his money back and you have to give it to him."

 

[braxus]

I get away with my policies on sales because I try to be very open, honest, and upfront on the stuff I sell. Restricting sales to certain buyers helps weed out the scammers. When I mention any issues with the products, they can't come back and say I didn't disclose that. I don't do a lot of sales, so that helps too. Im also blessed because of faith as well, though I know many do not believe in that way. Its my opinion, so please allow me that.

 

[Randy Stewart]

Four digit prices for Pentax 6X7's? - hardly, unless you feel you absolutely need a mint II version with its extra handful of bells n' whistles. I prefer the previous ordinary MLU body anyway. The most common potential problem in otherwise clean used versions of those is that the light seal gasket material sometimes gets gummy and needs replacement. You should ask about that specifically when seeking to purchase one. But replacing the light seals yourself is fairly easy to do, if needed. Avoid the very early bodies without the mirror lock-up feature. Many superb P67 lenses are an utter bargain these days, even in immaculate condition. There are a few notable exceptions like the fast 75/2.8 and the optically stunning EDIF series of telephotos, which still command high prices.

This has been my experience. The older Pentax 67/6x7 bodies and the most commonly used lenses are very under priced. From this , I'd except the 105mm 2.4 lens, which has over the last 15 years moved from $125-160 by the handful to ebay sales in the range of $650 - 900. I attribute that price increase to regular hype of the lens on YouTube and elsewhere, for reason I have never been able to get any of the "hypists" to explain. Even the exotic lenses have lost value. My 400 mm EDIF which I scored for $2,000 years ago is probably down to $1,500. The 300mm EDIF I shopped (but passed) at $1,700 is now ebay offered for about $900. Bargains all.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, I was patient when it took luck to find any EDIF tele for sale in any condition, and bagged a mint-plus 300 for around $900, about two years before more eventually turned up. It's one of my favorite lenses now. But the reason for those, as well as the 400 EDIF, suddenly becoming more common, is that they were prized for wide-field amateur astro photographers like comet hunters. They have the necessary level of correction. But then an expensive line of lenses and scopes built specifically for that kind of purpose arrived on the market in package form, and replaced the Pentax equipment for some of them. Those guys can be big spenders. Their precision clock-drive "tripods" can easily run 40 or 50 thousand. Some have automated remote-controlled mini-observatories out in the desert.

 

[kl122002]

I only hope 120 film won't gone in the coming future. Kodak just released Gold 200 in 120 format that shocked me a bit , since it is just a consumer grade film comparing to their pro. products like E100, Portra and Ektar. I don't know what to do if they have decided to discontinue either one of them.

Most equipment are not longer expensive , comparing to 10 years before. Now I could spend $600 for a Mamiya C330 S with 4 lenses with accessories, which is not possible back in the earlier days. I can't believe Mamiya C330 , which was once a real pro grade camera, now has dropped to nearly to an entry level priced in used market.

The only thing I found expensive with MF is the 120 film back. I have 2 Bronicas (SQ an ETRS) bought as first hand in 1980s. Back there the film back is not cheap but fair to its price as new & original. But now a used one with rust could cost almost or more than $100. I am glad I have 3x 120 film backs for the SQ.

 

[braxus]

Most equipment are not longer expensive , comparing to 10 years before.

Maybe compared to its new pricing when it was still sold, but todays used prices are still high. My Pentax 67II I bought for $1200 Canadian with shipping back in 2012. Today I can get almost 4 grand Canadian for it now. Needless to say, I won't be selling mine anytime soon. All other medium format gear has gone up to some degree, depending how popular it is with the younger crowd now. I still find Japanese pricing to be inflated compared to what an auction listing would sell it for.

When I purchased all my Mamiya RZ gear, the bodies were very high, but the lenses for it were so cheap, they priced out cheaper then Pentax 67 lenses. I wish I could get the Pentax lenses for that low.