Preserving color in a salt print

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NedL

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If you've tried making a salt print, you'll know that after the paper is first exposed it has a lovely lilac color. This color changes when it hits the hypo, to a yellow-brown, which dries down to differing shades depending on all sorts of things. The final color can be reddish, brown, neutral and even maroon, but nothing close to the original delicate lilac color.


A recurring theme from old and new descriptions of salt prints is the desire not to lose those purplish tones. Reading them makes me wonder if that's a reason gold toners became popular, because they cause a shift toward purple, which people wanted because of the disappointment of seeing the lilac disappear! Chrisopher James even has a teaser in his instructions, saying he'll reveal how to do it at the end, which he does... his friend washes her salt prints in salt water ( which causes a shift toward red ) then re-exposes them to light to bring the lilac back out, then doesn't fix them and stores them in a dark box, regarding them as ephemeral objets d'art. I can relate to this... I make a lot of solargraphs which can be similarly ephemeral, and my daughter is well aware of looking at them in reduced light and quickly scanning them. After seeing one of my first salt prints she insisted it was perfect and I shouldn't fix it... just store it in a box. I think she had a point, and it never again looked as nice as it did when we viewed it in the contact frame.


I was just reading a couple of articles about chromoskedasic printing. One at the freestyle site and one at another site. Both mention that Jolly ( an originator of the process, whose name is also attached to Sabatier effect printing ) says if you don't want the colors to shift in the fixer then you should fix your photograph in a 1% solution of sodium thiocyanate for 20 seconds. This to be used in place of regular fixer. Like in salt prints, the varying colors in chromoskedasic printing are caused by different silver grain sizes and densities. I wonder if this approach could work for preserving the colors in a salt print?

Has anyone tried this? Thoughts? I just checked photographers formulary and sodium thiocyanate is not particularly expensive, 10 grams for less than $5.
 

TheToadMen

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Hi NedL,
I know what you mean. I have a similar thing with carbon prints freshly washed out and not dried yet. These images have such nice relief, that disappears during dry down. I don't remember who, but one APUG subscriber stated in his signature he has no dry down problems whatsoever since he hangs the prints in a aquarium on the wall. :D

I'll forward your question to my Salt Print teacher. Maybe knows.
If you want to I can also forward your question to the alt photo mailing list. This is a mailing list (not a forum itself) dating back to 1994 with many experienced alt photo printers. I can repost the answers here for you.
Bert from Holland
 

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removed account4

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hi ned

have you tried waxing them?
i watched a workshop video of someone in europe
making salt prints and he waxed them to preserve them ...
come to think of it, maybe the wax was instead of toning them ..
nevermind

maybe clive(cliveh) has some insights .. he makes salt prints
and from what i remember, he uses talbot's original way using salt water instead of hypo ..
i remember him saying sometimes it preserves the image well, and sometimes
no so well, MAYBE tonality doesn't shift ?
 

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The colour and tonal qualities do shift even when stabilising with salt solution. I don’t know any way of preserving this, but I did a series many years ago when I stabilised a print in the dark and then took a series of flash photographs of the image at about 30 second intervals and some after a few minutes. They were published in an old edition of The British Journal of Photography. If I had the time I may try this again as it has huge possibilities. You are in effect arresting the visual state of the image as it changes with chemical reaction. Quite unique.
 
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Hi Bert, yes let me know anything you hear! ( live long and prosper! )

John, I'm still new at salt printing, and I use a pinch of salt in my first wash, but I've always done it under a safelight, so I don't know if the color shifts at that point, or how much. Next time I'll peek!

Maybe soaking in concentrated salt water for a long time would allow using really weak, quick hypo? Freestyle also sells chromoskedasic stabilizer.. I wonder if that could lock in the color?

Maybe the wax would still be useful since the lilac colors are probably produced by super tiny silver
grains, and without toning they would need to be protected somehow! I have some "art wax".

I don't know anything about sodium thiocyanate... I glanced at the MSDS and didn't see anything too alarming, but I wouldn't know if I need to keep it separate from other fixers for disposal.
 
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NedL

NedL

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The colour and tonal qualities do shift even when stabilising with salt solution. I don’t know any way of preserving this, but I did a series many years ago when I stabilised a print in the dark and then took a series of flash photographs of the image at about 30 second intervals and some after a few minutes. They were published in an old edition of The British Journal of Photography. If I had the time I may try this again as it has huge possibilities. You are in effect arresting the visual state of the image as it changes with chemical reaction. Quite unique.

Thanks Clive! We were typing at the same time. It figures the salt solution would cause changes.

My daughter has no notions about scanners symbolizing anything, and wanted to capture the initial image that way. A way to freeze time. Flash photographs can accomplish this physically. That is appealing to me as well. I like these thoughts even if they do not lead to preserving the original.
 

Jim Noel

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If you've tried making a salt print, you'll know that after the paper is first exposed it has a lovely lilac color. This color changes when it hits the hypo, to a yellow-brown, which dries down to differing shades depending on all sorts of things. The final color can be reddish, brown, neutral and even maroon, but nothing close to the original delicate lilac color.


A recurring theme from old and new descriptions of salt prints is the desire not to lose those purplish tones. Reading them makes me wonder if that's a reason gold toners became popular, because they cause a shift toward purple, which people wanted because of the disappointment of seeing the lilac disappear! Chrisopher James even has a teaser in his instructions, saying he'll reveal how to do it at the end, which he does... his friend washes her salt prints in salt water ( which causes a shift toward red ) then re-exposes them to light to bring the lilac back out, then doesn't fix them and stores them in a dark box, regarding them as ephemeral objets d'art. I can relate to this... I make a lot of solargraphs which can be similarly ephemeral, and my daughter is well aware of looking at them in reduced light and quickly scanning them. After seeing one of my first salt prints she insisted it was perfect and I shouldn't fix it... just store it in a box. I think she had a point, and it never again looked as nice as it did when we viewed it in the contact frame.


I was just reading a couple of articles about chromoskedasic printing. One at the freestyle site and one at another site. Both mention that Jolly ( an originator of the process, whose name is also attached to Sabatier effect printing ) says if you don't want the colors to shift in the fixer then you should fix your photograph in a 1% solution of sodium thiocyanate for 20 seconds. This to be used in place of regular fixer. Like in salt prints, the varying colors in chromoskedasic printing are caused by different silver grain sizes and densities. I wonder if this approach could work for preserving the colors in a salt print?

Has anyone tried this? Thoughts? I just checked photographers formulary and sodium thiocyanate is not particularly expensive, 10 grams for less than $5.

Why don't you try it and report?
 

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hi ned

you might also get a tiny bottle of sistan / ag stab to see if that works too

i got a bottle years ago at freestyle, not sure if they still sell it or if others do ...

thanks clive!

john
 
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NedL

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Hi John, that sounds like a good idea. And I will get some chromoskedasic stabilizer ( which is similar chemistry to sistan, I think? ) eventually.

OK so while the order is on its way, I will hope that PE or Gerald Koch will chime in just to confirm I'm not going to gas myself when I put acidified paper into a sodium thiocyanate solution. ( I do understand that cyanates are used safely in photography and not in gas chambers, but since I'm not a chemist I'm going to wait for extra confirmation before I actually do this! )
 

Prof_Pixel

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Personally, I prefer salt prints that have been gold toned and waxed. (of course, you don't really know exactly what the finished print will look like until it's waxed.)
 
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NedL

NedL

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Personally, I prefer salt prints that have been gold toned and waxed. (of course, you don't really know exactly what the finished print will look like until it's waxed.)

We're getting a little away from the original question of trying to preserve the lilac printing out color, but this is interesting and John mentioned wax too. I have some Dorland's Wax Medium, would that be appropriate to try? The jar says it is a compound of waxes and resin that can be used as a protective coating for paintings and photos.

I bought it for waxing calotypes, haven't tried it yet, but I could try it on some salt prints. I have a feeling my salt printing journey is about to get more expensive... silver nitrate is expensive enough, but gold chloride is not cheap! Thanks for the comments!
 
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NedL

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Just a little update on this thread. I still have not tried using NaSCN on a salt print... ( each print is a lot of work, and I'm more after results these days than experimenting! )

But about a month ago I made a lumen print and passed it through a solution of 0.8% NaSCN for 20 seconds, then washed it and fixed it in normal print strength rapid fixer. The colors did shift, but less than usual and there was some purple and blueish color left on the lumen print, which I've never seen before on a fixed lumen print with this paper. I left it sitting on my desk and it still looks the same as a month ago, so it does seem to be fixed. It's not a great lumen print but it does have neat colors.

Also, about beeswax and lavender, I've tried that quite a bit now and have found that it is highly dependent on the type of paper. It does very little on the Lana Aquarelle paper I've been using most lately. Smells nice though :smile:
 
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NedL

NedL

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Small update... and a partly related observation. A couple weeks ago I tried to reproduce the original lilac colored salt print that I was thinking of when I started this thread.

I used the same paper, same salt, same negative, and tried to expose it the same way ( in the shade, aimed away from the sun, for the entire exposure )... the print was the same color I remember, but the sun went down before it was done and so I tried to finish it under my BLB lamps... where it went from lavender to brown... I think the light we use to make salt prints is more important and a bigger factor in the final result than many realize. Also, I think most people who make salt prints use additives ( like gelatin or sodium citrate ) and I have the impression that these reduce the extreme delicacy of a pure salt print.

Edit, later the same day:

Bigger Update: Today I really tried it... made salt print, maybe more purplish than lilac color, but most of the color was lost, shifting toward yellowish brown, as soon as it went into distilled water. After washing, I put it in 0.4% NaSCN for 30 seconds.. there was a further shift toward more neutral brown, and not much hint of any purple left. There was more of a reddish color left than you would see after fixing in hypo, but the original dry exposed color was lost. It was reasonably stabilized, I took it outside and the background did not fog. Then I tried fixing in hypo and it changed again, pretty close to what it would have looked like if it had only been fixed in hypo. At the end of the day, NaSCN did not preserve the original colors.
 
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