Preserving C41 developer

[koraks]

A bottle of RA4 Champion bleach

That would have to be BLIX, not bleach. BLIX does indeed separate out the way you described. Bleach doesn't.

I’m just thinking that the reason I came back to APUG/Photrio was the frank exchange of differing ideas and experiences.

We're happy to have you back!

 

[BMbikerider]

That would have to be BLIX, not bleach. BLIX does indeed separate out the way you described. Bleach doesn't.



We're happy to have you back!

You 100% right it was for RA4. Dooooh!

Odd though it hasn't separated out now I have diluted the 2nd bottle. I await for your reasoning or is this normal?

 

[koraks]

This is one of the many monents where it would be nice to have Ron Mowrey among us, still. I really don't know why it happened in this particular case with the concentrate; I've only seen it happening with the dilute working strength blix after extensive use. It's the fixer part that dies; that's the cream-colored muck that collects at the bottom. It's basically very finely divided sulfur powder. Blix is an inherently unstable mixture btw; simply put, the conditions that the bleach likes are detrimental to the fixer.

 

[mshchem]

I've had the fixer portion of blix go bad, sulfur ppt, I substituted rapid fixer, worked fine. I have had success with racking off 250ml, full, bottles of the fixer part of RA4 blix, the bleach portion, I've found, stores indefinitely. YMMV

 

[blee1996]

I also standardized my fixer: using Ilford Rapid Fixer for everything from b&w to C41/e6/ecn-2. Then I only need to store color developer properly in sealed wine bags. Bleach last long enough, even stored in basic brown bottles.

 

[koraks]

I've had the fixer portion of blix go bad, sulfur ppt, I substituted rapid fixer, worked fine.

Well, here's something funny. I used to use a Fuji monopart blix (so a single concentrate), which seemed to have an infinite lifetime as a concentrate. I recently switched over to CP-RA, which is a double concentrate (so bleach + fix). And sure enough, on this one, the fixer part sulfurs out pretty easily. I've had to resort to the entirely-full-glass-bottle approach for storing that part. Next time I'll go back to the monopart blix. Don't ask me why the monopart stuff is more stable; it's contrary to what I'd expected!

 

[mshchem]

Well, here's something funny. I used to use a Fuji monopart blix (so a single concentrate), which seemed to have an infinite lifetime as a concentrate. I recently switched over to CP-RA, which is a double concentrate (so bleach + fix). And sure enough, on this one, the fixer part sulfurs out pretty easily. I've had to resort to the entirely-full-glass-bottle approach for storing that part. Next time I'll go back to the monopart blix. Don't ask me why the monopart stuff is more stable; it's contrary to what I'd expected!

I can't help but feel that some of these formulas have some sort of "anti-oxidizing" additive??? I don't know. Seems like my Kodak and Fuji chemistry has a better record (of course this was with the Kodak Alaris China stuff).

 

[Samu]

I have mixed fuji Hunt 5l kit and have frozen developer in 500ml plastic bottles. When I have 10 to 12 rolls, I thaw 2 bottles, makeup 1litre chemistry and use them. For the time being I have not seen any color issue and the way I test this is if the same film (like Portra 400) prints on the same RA4 paper with roughly the same filter settings without any color issue, till now I am successful. But again, I am not a Pro.

I have quite a lot of experience from the same kit. My practice is dividing the developer concentrate in portions for a batch of 1L in small glass bottles I have bought from a laboratory supplies store. and fill them with inert gas (I still have some Tetenal Protectan left, gas for lighters will go as well). In these containers it will keep for a very long time. The part which must be protected from oxidation is the part C containing the developing agent, but I have found it easier to put all chemicals for the deceloper in batches, because it is easier when you don´t need to measure them each time you make a new batch. I usually use the chemistry 3 times developing 4 rolls at a time in my Jobo 1500 series tank, which takes about a liter if used in hand invertinh. I don´y hsve a rotary device such as Jobo, which has a water bath, so I develop films by hand. My rotary system is good for RA-4 only. Some people insist that dilm developers are for one shot use only if not replenished, but I have not experienced visible deviation in my negatives. That said, I have not tested this with a test strip and densitometer. But I do agree that you should not overuse any of your chemistry.

I would not recommend freezing developers, as the manufacturers warn about the risk of precipitation if stored in low temperatures. This is more of an issue for concentrates, but I recommend dividing the concentrates in small glass bottles instead of mixing everything. It takes much less room, and will keep well this way.

 

[koraks]

I can't help but feel that some of these formulas have some sort of "anti-oxidizing" additive???

I assume they contain a certain amount of sulfite. It's conceivable that other anti-oxidants are present, but they are apparently substances that don't require listing in an MSDS - i.e. they're not considered hazardous in a legal sense.

 

[Fatih Ayoglu]

I have quite a lot of experience from the same kit. My practice is dividing the developer concentrate in portions for a batch of 1L in small glass bottles I have bought from a laboratory supplies store. and fill them with inert gas (I still have some Tetenal Protectan left, gas for lighters will go as well). In these containers it will keep for a very long time. The part which must be protected from oxidation is the part C containing the developing agent, but I have found it easier to put all chemicals for the deceloper in batches, because it is easier when you don´t need to measure them each time you make a new batch. I usually use the chemistry 3 times developing 4 rolls at a time in my Jobo 1500 series tank, which takes about a liter if used in hand invertinh. I don´y hsve a rotary device such as Jobo, which has a water bath, so I develop films by hand. My rotary system is good for RA-4 only. Some people insist that dilm developers are for one shot use only if not replenished, but I have not experienced visible deviation in my negatives. That said, I have not tested this with a test strip and densitometer. But I do agree that you should not overuse any of your chemistry.

I would not recommend freezing developers, as the manufacturers warn about the risk of precipitation if stored in low temperatures. This is more of an issue for concentrates, but I recommend dividing the concentrates in small glass bottles instead of mixing everything. It takes much less room, and will keep well this way.

So you mix all concentrates, like A, B and C and then divide them into small batches?

 

[Radost]

I also standardized my fixer: using Ilford Rapid Fixer for everything from b&w to C41/e6/ecn-2. Then I only need to store color developer properly in sealed wine bags. Bleach last long enough, even stored in basic brown bottles.

Sounds expansive.

 

[BMbikerider]

The s might be a very stupid question, you have my permission to laugh!

Can you preserve mixed C41 developer, bleach, and stabilizer by freezing them? At the moment I don’t shoot enough color film to make it financially justifiable to keep C41 developer at home.

Yes you certainly can freeze it. I am not sure of when it is concentrated but the working solution can be frozen. If you use the brand with separate bleach and fix I have found there is no real need to do anything with them at all. It is the combined BLIX where it tends to go off. The same applies to the stabilizer.

I go one step further as well. With the working solution they are always stored in brown screw top bottles with the neoprene inserts which are 100% leakproof. I have always used C41 on the use once and dispose principal and a full 35mm film will need 150cc the conveniently the size of a JOBO tank when used in their processors.

I use 150cc sized bottles and when they are full there is always a small airgap at the top, but before sealing I pop the bottle in the microwave for around 10 seconds (depending on the power of the cooker) and then screw the top on. Warming it up to around 30c which is less than the working temperature, and with the screw top on tight the liquid will contract when frozen so forming a partial vacuum. After it is defrosted you will know if the vacuum has helped because there will be a distinct but small rush of air into the bottle

there have been warnings of the risk of the glass breaking but I have never had a bottle break on me through freezing