Pre-WWII Rolleicord with stuck shutter?

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jay moussy

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Family car ride got us by a thrift shop, and there, in the glass case, was a TLR

Rolleicord, a bit frozen.
Shutter looked inoperative, so I passed, even for the $14 rice tag.. born frugal I guess.

Back home, I was able to, I think, identify it as a likely K3, made around 1938, using the RolleiClub site's visual records. There was film in there, pink backing paper, so kind of old..!

What is the likelihood of getting the shutter working?
Film transport, focusing were frozen, and I had to apply pressure. I did a bit of the same with the single shutter lever, as there was no real feeling of cocking in, or release.
 

removed account4

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hi jay
im guessing Zack's can probably fix it, he fixed the 1 a3 I brought to him, he's a real wizard.
no clue of the cost though guessing it all depends on what's wrong ...
14$ for a rollei ?! that's a deal even for a broken one :wink:
John
 
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jay moussy

jay moussy

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hi jay
im guessing Zack's can probably fix it, he fixed the 1 a3 I brought to him, he's a real wizard.
no clue of the cost though guessing it all depends on what's wrong ...
14$ for a rollei ?! that's a deal even for a broken one :wink:
John

I forgot: comes with leather case, with the cute old-school satchel clasp!
 

Kino

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The case alone is worth more than that...
 

Dan Daniel

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Rolleicords are relatively simple cameras. Getting the shutter and the wind mechanism working won't take a lot of work. The Triotar on most of this era is a lens liked by many. If you do the work yourself, I would say definitely go for it. If you send it to someone like Zachs, you'll still end up with a nice camera for maybe $100- 125?

The one thing I would check is corrosion. Open the back and check the rollers at the top and bottom of the film opening. Do they spin freely? Do they feel as if they are rusted up? Just using them as an indicator of what might be going on deeper inside. If it feels like a lot of corrosion everywehre, I'd probably walk. Oh, check lenses for fungus and such.
 

awty

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$14!! and you passed? Thats just silly. Id give $14 just for the counter reset button mine is missing.

Old shutters usually just get gummed up over time, bit of a clean and slight lube should get it going again.
 

benveniste

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hi jay
im guessing Zack's can probably fix it, he fixed the 1 a3 I brought to him, he's a real wizard.
no clue of the cost though guessing it all depends on what's wrong ...
14$ for a rollei ?! that's a deal even for a broken one :wink:
John

Mr. Zacks quoted me $175 to repair a Rolleicord, subject to inspection.
 
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jay moussy

jay moussy

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After your kind encouragements, I am hoping to get the 'cord Saturday.. unless an equally brave soul gets it before me!
One thing I sort of learned, back home, after handling the camera:
Speed, aperture setting knobs are or can be coupled, as in, you select a speed (or maybe aperture?), and the other "follows" for best exposure.
Is that correct?
 

JPD

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Speed, aperture setting knobs are or can be coupled, as in, you select a speed (or maybe aperture?), and the other "follows" for best exposure.
Is that correct?
No, there's no Exposure Value System on the pre-war Rollei's. You set the speed and aperture separately.

And the shutter would be a Compur, not Compur-Rapid.
 
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jay moussy

jay moussy

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Well, it is home now!
Two main issues that I can see:
inoperative shutter, was known going in
broken film door metal spring-y catch, with part of it still screwed there

Also
slight corrosion on aluminum film pressure plate

Ancient exposed roll of Verichrome - not sure about develop it myself, special treatment?
Oddly, both spool ends read "Kodak Brownie".
Also odd: camera came with a 2 x 2 3/4 Polaroid B&W print of a 1950s smashed car, driver side! Mystery.

(EDITS on Verichrome and Polaroid)
 
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awty

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You can just tape it shut.
Mine has slight corrosion on the pressure plate as well.

Can you turn the shutter speed lever?
You cock the lens by moving the bottom lever to the right and fire by pushing to the left. Bulb and timer is activated by just pushing to the left.
Try using a cable in the cable release if the shutter button doesnt work.
Dont force anything
 

Nitroplait

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I'd be surprised if an experienced in-demand Rollei tech can do an overhaul under $250, it sounds like we are talking about a complete teardown. Then throw shipping and tax on top of that - if repairs are taxed in the US that is.
An overhaul like this is only worth it if it was a camera you wished for anyway. A thorough CLA cost the same regardless of it is your favourite camera or not. You will not recoup repair cost if you resell.
The Rolleicord is an economy version and inconvenient camera to use compared to a Rolleiflex. If it has a triplet lens, the results will not be particularly sharp unless you stop way down.
$14 however is a bargain and you could consider selling and put the profits towards something really worth restoring.
 
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jay moussy

jay moussy

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You can just tape it shut.
Mine has slight corrosion on the pressure plate as well.

Can you turn the shutter speed lever?
You cock the lens by moving the bottom lever to the right and fire by pushing to the left. Bulb and timer is activated by just pushing to the left.
Try using a cable in the cable release if the shutter button doesnt work.
Dont force anything

All indicates camera has not be used at all since the early fifties (old Verichrome in there)
speed and aperture settings seem to work through old grease but move. The 1/300 setting is hard to engage.

Shutter: lever moves, but cocking feel "empty", short throw release feels like it is engaging, but the shutter blades are still. Cable release feels like it is bumping against something. Upon inspection, there is a slight dent in at the bottom of the metal front housing, like camera may have fallen, landing on shutter lever, creating the slight dent.

A costly CLA is out of question.
A video describing shutter access is around, so, I may do that, to inspect, carefully cleaning and lubing.

Would it be a god idea to remove the taking lens front and "feel" the shutter blades.
 

Kino

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The 300th speed setting is normally hard to cock; it has an extra high speed spring in the shutter.

Shutter blades are probably glued down with old oil and grease. It only takes a tiny bit on the surfaces to stick them together solidly.

This is what I would do; others would disagree, you make your choice.

Unscrew and remove the front and back lens elements. You will probably need a cheap lens spanner to remove the rear element. You can try to clean the shutter with the rear element in place, but it's a pain and the dirt and oil from the shutter will migrate to that rear element, requiring you to clean it from the front with the lens set on "B" once you get the shutter to open and close. Not ideal, but you can do it.

With the front lens element off, wet a cotton bud/ QTip with Naptha and gently wipe the intersections of the leaf shutter blades where they overlap. Don't flood it, just apply enough to start penetrating the overlap. Cock the shutter and place it somewhere above a 60th of a second and try to fire the shutter. If the blades don't move, wipe the entire surface of the shutter blades with naptha; again don't flood it.

Be patient; it should eventually fire BUT it may fire and stick open or partially open. Don't panic.

Continue to wipe around the opening of the shutter or on whatever exposed blades are there with naptha and fire the shutter. Change the cotton bud frequently and run the shutter speed selector up and down in the mid-range of the available speeds. The blades will eventually start to move. Each time it fires, wipe down the surface of the blades carefully, being mindful of the edges of the blades. Wipe in a direction that doesn't lift or bump up against the shutter blade edges. You should start seeing light brown oil come off on your cotton buds.

If you have removed the rear lens element, clean front and back surfaces of the blades. This works a lot better than just cleaning the front, as the dirt/oil will simply move to the back and greatly extend the cleaning process.

If you get frustrated, set the camera to one side and go do something else. You cannot rush this.

Once the blades appear to be functioning correctly for the most part, the slower speeds may still stick, find a speed that the shutter seems to fire fairly reliably and continue cleaning. Start alternating with 91/99% alcohol and naptha and start moving down in the shutter speed range. Should it ever hang, try going back up in speed on the shutter until it fires again and start over. It takes time but eventually it should start firing regularly on all speeds.

Once the shutter appears to be working properly, set it on "B", take a cable release and lock the shutter open. Carefully clean the rear element with alcohol followed with window cleaner.

Leave the front lens element out (after releasing the shutter from "B") and let it dry completely.

Exercise the shutter. If anything sticks, do it all over again.
 
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Tel

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+1 to Kino's suggestions. It's not likely that this is going to be your go-to camera but it would be interesting to see if it works--correct? I would add though that it's probably better to pick up a spanner wrench (even the reasonably good ones are not too expensive) and remove the rear element before attempting to clean the blades. If you're ever going to open up a camera you'll need one anyway; it's probably the most useful tool in your camera repair toolkit.
 
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jay moussy

jay moussy

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Thanks for the above tips and advice.

Update: with front taking lens element out, a gentle naphta application on blades, and AFTER I found the B setting, I can clearly operate the B setting at will (EDIT without cocking first), with a good feel on the release throw.
Had I found the B setting earlier -was gummed up, I would have skipped the naphta. Oh well.
Shutter blades look clean, BTW.

Now a question, to possibly fault the cocking mechanism:
- cocking clearly does not happen at all speeds other than B
- my B setting being functional, does this mean it is, by design, independent of the "normal" cocking leverage?

Well, at this stage I have a B-capable Rolleicord, a special low-light machine!
 
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awty

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You do not cock the lens on B. The cocking lever should not move when set to B.
After B you have T can you get that?
Again when set to T cocking lever wont move. Rigid.

When setting the speed to say 50, cocking lever moves all the way to cable release, as you move it yyou can feel a slight resistance and the sound of the mechanism winding, once wound the lever drops to the bottom and is ready for firing.
 
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jay moussy

jay moussy

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After B you have T can you get that?

When setting the speed to say 50, cocking lever moves all the way to cable release, as you move it yyou can feel a slight resistance and the sound of the mechanism winding, once wound the lever drops to the bottom and is ready for firing.

I cannot reach T (yet), too stiff. Note: I cannot reliably engage B all the time, I need to play around the speed settings and come back to it. EDIT pressing down on the lever gets me to B easier!

Cocking lever feels dead, does not quite reach the very end if its travel upwards on the slot (by 2 mm), and certainly does not drop back down to rest position on its own.
 
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shutterfinger

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Only amateurs use lighter fluid in cameras.
https://www.cameramanuals.org/rolleiflex/rolleicord_ii.pdf
DSC_0550_00002.jpg DSC_0549_00001.jpg DSC_0554_00004.jpg DSC_0553_00001.jpg inner ring-element retainer; knurled ring- shutter retainer; rear lens hood and velvet or felt light trap.
Compur Rapid shutter nearly identical internally as a Compur 1/300 shutter.
Piece A should move freely on the cocking lever and has a hair fine spring. It should slide freely in slot B which is partially obscured by the cocking lever.
Shutter will not cock if A does not move freely in the slot.
DSC_0555_00005.jpg
 
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