Pre-visualisation

[cliveh]

Is he term pre-visualisation a con to make believe what was seen is how the outcome was controlled, when the outcome could be accidental to the MO?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Huh?

 

[John Koehrer]

I dunno. Adams never used the term "PREvisualize" That was something coined by someone else with a make-a-word book.
That brings to mind how do you Pre visualize something? If I'm going to photograph something and have an idea or concept
in mind I'm visualizing it not pre....................................Maybe a nightmare from the subconscious

 

[btaylor]

"how do you Pre visualize something?"
That's a great question, as you point out it doesn't make sense. I also believe Mr. Adams used the term "visualization" which does make sense, to visualize in your mind's eye what you want the photo to look like when you're done. I'm pretty good at it-- when I get to the finished product and I think it's good I say, "oh yeah, I meant it to look like that." No one knows if I'm fibbing or not, and I'm not telling!

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Is he term pre-visualisation a con to make believe what was seen is how the outcome was controlled, when the outcome could be accidental to the MO?

Depends on who's using it. I always have the finished print in mind when doing serious work and barring accidents, that is what I get.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

It's visualization, not pre-visualzation (which makes no sense).

Correct.

 

[tedr1]

I understand this to be about having the ability, when at the camera before the exposure is made, to foresee how the finished picture will look in terms of framing, perspective, distribution of tones and color, focus and depth of field, and so on. I found this was aquired very slowly, it is a skill I now have but lacked when I began making photographs. I find it difficult to recall my earlier experiences, but I believe there was no preconception of the finished print, rather I was obsessed with the appearance in real time of the image in the viewfinder, and only later discovering what was in the frame and what sort of picture I had made.

I find the preview screen of a digital camera a good aid to composition and the immediate feedback of the review screen is very useful to me.

 

[eddie]

Depends on who's using it. I always have the finished print in mind when doing serious work and barring accidents, that is what I get.

That’s how I’ve used it. When I come upon a subject, meter, expose, and determine development, it is to get the image I visualized onto paper. So, I guess, I visualize the scene, and pre- visualize the print. It’s an awkward term, I know, but does convey the difference between the actual subject and the printed version of it.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

That’s how I’ve used it. When I come upon a subject, meter, expose, and determine development, it is to get the image I visualized onto paper. So, I guess, I visualize the scene, and pre- visualize the print. It’s an awkward term, I know, but does convey the difference between the actual subject and the printed version of it.

And sometimes, after I've made the print I "saw", I look at it for a while and see other ways to print it.
Have you seen the different prints of "Moonrise" Ansel made over the years?

 

[eddie]

Certainly. Just because an image was “pre-visualized” a certain way doesn’t mean it’s set in stone.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I understand this to be about having the ability, when at the camera before the exposure is made, to foresee how the finished picture will look in terms of framing, perspective, distribution of tones and color, focus and depth of field, and so on. I found this was aquired very slowly, it is a skill I now have but lacked when I began making photographs. I find it difficult to recall my earlier experiences, but I believe there was no preconception of the finished print, rather I was obsessed with the appearance in real time of the image in the viewfinder, and only later discovering what was in the frame and what sort of picture I had made.

I find the preview screen of a digital camera a good aid to composition and the immediate feedback of the review screen is very useful to me.

I use film, so for me it's about getting it right, the first and only time, on the film. Where I want shadow detail, where I don't, which if any filter to use, what do I have to do now, in the field, to get a negative that will allow me to make the print I see in my head. There's no preview beyond what I see on the groundglass, and the "review" happens when the sheet is developed and printed. With TXP 8x10 now at $12 per sheet, it damn well better be right the first time.

 

[removed account4]

i believe it was minor white who said previsualization

and it is certainly possible to know what you wan tto do before hand and do everything to fit that end goal

 

[awty]

You use your imagination and engineer everything towards the picture in your head. Unfortunately my probabilities are usually restricted by my capabilities.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

i believe it was minor white who said previsualization

and it is certainly possible to know what you wan tto do before hand and do everything to fit that end goal

(Pre-) or Visualisation: aesthetics, placement, impact and code of arrangement.
Conceptualisation: the basal idea that will lead to visualisation — the image on film, in-camera, on a plate...whatever.
There is no such word as 'previsualisation' used in tertiary art education, certainly not in photography streams. But C&V are key tenets.

 

[btaylor]

So none of you have happy “accidents” that look better than your visualization that you show and are proud of? You dont find an interpretation in the darkroom you didn’t intend when you clicked the shutter? Visualization is something I always start with, it may not be where I end up when I get to a finished print.

 

[Arklatexian]

So none of you have happy “accidents” that look better than your visualization that you show and are proud of? You dont find an interpretation in the darkroom you didn’t intend when you clicked the shutter? Visualization is something I always start with, it may not be where I end up when I get to a finished print.

Certainly we have had "happy accidents" as you describe it, where something extra was in the picture and, perhaps, we missed seeing it when we shot it. In Louisiana, that something "extra" that was given to us in the shot, at no extra cost is called "lagniappe" which I am told means "something extra". My recommendation is such a situation is enjoy your good fortune and don't try to think it to death.........Regards!

 

[trendland]

Certainly we have had "happy accidents" as you describe it, where something extra was in the picture and, perhaps, we missed seeing it when we shot it. In Louisiana, that something "extra" that was given to us in the shot, at no extra cost is called "lagniappe" which I am told means "something extra". My recommendation is such a situation is enjoy your good fortune and don't try to think it to death.........Regards!

Is he term pre-visualisation a con to make believe what was seen is how the outcome was controlled, when the outcome could be accidental to the MO?

Pre-visualisation is a "Lay out" in darkroom it realy makes no sence (because you can't change anything from the shooting - it is completed done then - when the film is exposed)A "proof" would be the better term in this case - wouldn't it?
with regards

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Pre-visualisation is a "Lay out" in darkroom it realy makes no sence (because you can't change anything from the shooting - it is completed done then - when the film is exposed)A "proof" would be the better term in this case - wouldn't it?
with regards

Visualisation takes place BEFORE the film is exposed.

 

[trendland]

Visualisation takes place BEFORE the film is exposed.

Aha - that seams to be real great News....thanks for this urgent information.....
with regards

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Aha - that seams to be real great News....thanks for this urgent information.....
with regards

....

 

[Sirius Glass]

Aha - that seams to be real great News....thanks for this urgent information.....
with regards

Sometimes we must break down information to the basics to help some understand the message.

 

[dpurdy]

The pre part probably comes from preview but the idea comes across fine if you use the term pre vision. The English language has lots of illogical usage but the point comes across anyway. Visualizing what you are trying to do comes with experience, even if you are trying not to have pre-ideas.

 

[trendland]

Sometimes we must break down information to the basics to help some understand the message.

Yes that might be a real task (sometimes)...
with regards


PS : ....pssst. (don't let E. von Hoeg hear the irony in post #020)

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

I don't pre-visualize. I pre-pre-visualize. No... make that pre-pre-pre-visualize. Likewise, I don't pre-think things. I pre-pre-pre-think them. I don't prevent problems. I pre-prevent them. I've never had to pre-pre-pre-prevent problems, however. I did once pre-present something to a crowd but they only perceived it as a presentation. Perhaps if I'd instructed the crowd to pre-perceive the pre-presentation it would have been a more pre-effective pre-presentation. As it turned out, it was only post-effective. I'm not trying to be pre-post-erous.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Yes that might be a real task (sometimes)...
with regards


PS : ....pssst. (don't let E. von Hoeg hear the irony in post #020)

" von HoegH" And it was "sarcasm". The irony lies in the fact that I initially took you seriously.