Power Packs & Heads versus Monolights ?

[Pieter12]

glad it worked for you. Inmy opinion, Hensel is greatly overpriced.

It is. But they are great deals used.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

It is. But they are great deals used.

may be,but there are better options IMO.

 

[Pieter12]

may be,but there are better options IMO.

Probably. But as with any system, once you go down the rabbit hole, it is hard to turn back. Plus I have had bad experiences with some Asian-made electronic gear that has left me unwilling to invest in some of the less-expensive options.

 

[wiltw]

These days, the place where it's at is LEDs - they now have units that are BOTH a strobe and continuous light utilizing LED tech. If I were in the market for lighting gear for medium format/35mm/digital, this is where I would be investing my lighting dollars.

I would be interested in investigating some of these combo LED-based solutions, but have not been keeping up to date on products...Can you mention one or two brands/models of such lights?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Probably. But as with any system, once you go down the rabbit hole, it is hard to turn back. Plus I have had bad experiences with some Asian-made electronic gear that has left me unwilling to invest in some of the less-expensive options.

that's understandable. Wallimex is different. It's designed in Holland, made in China, and distributed by a German company specializing in photographic products. Robustness is in the design not in the manufacturing. There is no good reason why a quality product can not be made in China! Many Nikon lenses are made in China while the quality is controlled from Japan.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I would be interested in investigating some of these combo LED-based solutions, but have not been keeping up to date on products...Can you mention one or two brands/models of such lights?

Godox, Aputure, and Rotolight are a few of the brands that make dual-function LED lights.

 

[wiltw]

Godox, Aputure, and Rotolight are a few of the brands that make dual-function LED lights.

I just visited Aputure and could not figure out what line of products has LED constant output as well as LED 'strobe' high output...can you assist with a more directed aim than brand name alone?

I was able to find the Godox LF308 'LED Flash Unit'. How bright is the LED in 'flash' mode vs in constant mode...specs list only a single Lux value for the unit, yet somehow the flash is '3x the LED' constant output.

Rotolight NEO 2 states,

• "Powerful soft output (2000 lux at 3ft), 85% brighter than NEO 1
• Flash mode provides 500% more light output (mains power), 250% on AA (NiMh or Li-ion) batteries"

The NEO 3 has some nice features that can be of advantage for a pro, such as elimination of the need to stock and use many different gels. But even YouTube tests avoid the issue of how bright the light is for conventional white light flash.

I really wish that LED light manufacturers would stop listing Lux as their unit of brightness, it has zero correlation with with photographers need to know in comparative brightness of light falling on an object (which is the reason probably for deliberate the unit of Lux which is Luminance (light output), rather than a measure of Illuminance (light incident on object). How does one compare 1000 Lux vs. a Canon 600EX-RT flash output?! we get what seems to be avoidance double-talk from everyone on the issue of how bright the light is for conventional white light flash.

A video on DP Review https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/re...leds-to-offer-loads-of-creative-color-options
states, "The downside of LEDs has always been that it’s hard to make them powerful enough to match the range of applications that traditional light sources could cover, but with improved noise performance in cameras and much more useable high ISO settings, perhaps that doesn’t matter so much these days...LED light panels are generally not as powerful as standard flash units or traditional movie lights. While these Rotolight heads are more powerful than the previous models and more powerful than others in their class, we need to manage our expectations a little when it comes to flash and adjust our behavior... I considered a practical distance of 2m using a Sekonic L-558 light meter set to ISO 100, 400 and 800 in a large room at night with the overhead lights off. This isn’t a scientific set of measurements, but they will give you an idea. ...shutter speed was set to 1/60sec for both continuous and flash exposures."...and the chart shows ISO 100 values of (1/60) f/2.8
Finally, a real world meaningful comparison! But I am rather underwhelmed in comparing that to a small 500w-s Dynalite measuring f/11, especially when I might need to stop down to f/5.6 for sufficient portraiture DOF, that forces shutter speed to 1/4 sec with the Rotalight !

 

[Pieter12]

that's understandable. Wallimex is different. It's designed in Holland, made in China, and distributed by a German company specializing in photographic products. Robustness is in the design not in the manufacturing. There is no good reason why a quality product can not be made in China! Many Nikon lenses are made in China while the quality is controlled from Japan.

My main issue is the lack of decent quality control and cost to useless user manuals.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I just visited Aputure and could not figure out what line of products has LED constant output as well as LED 'strobe' high output...can you assist with a more directed aim than brand name alone?

I was able to find the Godox LF308 'LED Flash Unit'. How bright is the LED in 'flash' mode vs in constant mode...specs list only a single Lux value for the unit, yet somehow the flash is '3x the LED' constant output.

Rotolight NEO 2 states,

• "Powerful soft output (2000 lux at 3ft), 85% brighter than NEO 1
• Flash mode provides 500% more light output (mains power), 250% on AA (NiMh or Li-ion) batteries"

The NEO 3 has some nice features that can be of advantage for a pro, such as elimination of the need to stock and use many different gels. But even YouTube tests avoid the issue of how bright the light is for conventional white light flash.

I really wish that LED light manufacturers would stop listing Lux as their unit of brightness, it has zero correlation with with photographers need to know in comparative brightness of light falling on an object (which is the reason probably for deliberate the unit of Lux which is Luminance (light output), rather than a measure of Illuminance (light incident on object). How does one compare 1000 Lux vs. a Canon 600EX-RT flash output?! we get what seems to be avoidance double-talk from everyone on the issue of how bright the light is for conventional white light flash.

A video on DP Review https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/re...leds-to-offer-loads-of-creative-color-options
states, "The downside of LEDs has always been that it’s hard to make them powerful enough to match the range of applications that traditional light sources could cover, but with improved noise performance in cameras and much more useable high ISO settings, perhaps that doesn’t matter so much these days...LED light panels are generally not as powerful as standard flash units or traditional movie lights. While these Rotolight heads are more powerful than the previous models and more powerful than others in their class, we need to manage our expectations a little when it comes to flash and adjust our behavior... I considered a practical distance of 2m using a Sekonic L-558 light meter set to ISO 100, 400 and 800 in a large room at night with the overhead lights off. This isn’t a scientific set of measurements, but they will give you an idea. ...shutter speed was set to 1/60sec for both continuous and flash exposures."...and the chart shows ISO 100 values of (1/60) f/2.8
Finally, a real world meaningful comparison! But I am rather underwhelmed in comparing that to a small 500w-s Dynalite measuring f/11, especially when I might need to stop down to f/5.6 for sufficient portraiture DOF, that forces shutter speed to 1/4 sec with the Rotalight !

It's still an evolving tech. I am hesitant to name models of units because the descriptions, as you noted, are somewhat vague, and the specs are hard to compare. Also, one model that may be available today might be off the market or superseded by the time you go shopping for it.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

My main issue is the lack of decent quality control and cost to useless user manuals.

a quality poduct functions as designed and fullfills or exceeds customer expectations. Wallimex does that for me Hensel did not. There is no good reason that made-in China products should be of lower quality other than false expectations. Remember that made-in-Japan was once thought to be of low quality? Now it's a sign of quality. BY THE WAY, quality control shouldn't even be necessary with a good design and a well-organized manufacturing process; don't verify quality, design it into the product!

 

[maltfalc]

These days, the place where it's at is LEDs - they now have units that are BOTH a strobe and continuous light utilizing LED tech. If I were in the market for lighting gear for medium format/35mm/digital, this is where I would be investing my lighting dollars.

leds are fine as continuous lights, but as flashes they're obscenely overpriced and underpowered garbage with inferior colour rendering. xenon flashes with built-in led continuous lights are a good option though if you need both.

 

[maltfalc]

A video on DP Review https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/re...leds-to-offer-loads-of-creative-color-options
states, "The downside of LEDs has always been that it’s hard to make them powerful enough to match the range of applications that traditional light sources could cover, but with improved noise performance in cameras and much more useable high ISO settings, perhaps that doesn’t matter so much these days...LED light panels are generally not as powerful as standard flash units or traditional movie lights. While these Rotolight heads are more powerful than the previous models and more powerful than others in their class, we need to manage our expectations a little when it comes to flash and adjust our behavior... I considered a practical distance of 2m using a Sekonic L-558 light meter set to ISO 100, 400 and 800 in a large room at night with the overhead lights off. This isn’t a scientific set of measurements, but they will give you an idea. ...shutter speed was set to 1/60sec for both continuous and flash exposures."...and the chart shows ISO 100 values of (1/60) f/2.8
Finally, a real world meaningful comparison! But I am rather underwhelmed in comparing that to a small 500w-s Dynalite measuring f/11, especially when I might need to stop down to f/5.6 for sufficient portraiture DOF, that forces shutter speed to 1/4 sec with the Rotalight !

keep in mind, rotolight only gets the higher output of their flash mode by running their leds at a power level they can only sustain for a very short period of time. you might still be limited to 1/60s worth of flash even at 1/4s shutter speed if 1/60s is the max duration of rotolight's flash mode. and of course if you need to use shutter speeds faster than that, you'll lose light just as quickly as with continuous lighting.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

leds are fine as continuous lights, but as flashes they're obscenely overpriced and underpowered garbage with inferior colour rendering. xenon flashes with built-in led continuous lights are a good option though if you need both.

In the long run you're right - especially if you are shooting anything bigger than an APS-C or Micro 4/3 digital camera. I just dropped a pretty chunk of change on a second Bowens Creo 2400 W/S pack that I'm using with ULF (14x17 to be precise). There isn't an LED flash in the world that would work with that need - I need to hit f/64 on the meter for doing head-and-shoulder portraits with that to account for the 2 stops bellows extension compensation so I have enough depth of field to get more than just the eyes in sharp focus.

 

[Mal Paso]

In the long run you're right - especially if you are shooting anything bigger than an APS-C or Micro 4/3 digital camera. I just dropped a pretty chunk of change on a second Bowens Creo 2400 W/S pack that I'm using with ULF (14x17 to be precise). There isn't an LED flash in the world that would work with that need - I need to hit f/64 on the meter for doing head-and-shoulder portraits with that to account for the 2 stops bellows extension compensation so I have enough depth of field to get more than just the eyes in sharp focus.

Tan with portrait, no extra charge?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Tan with portrait, no extra charge?

2,400 Ws is pretty hefty;probably too much for digital but useful for LF.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Tan with portrait, no extra charge?

The modeling lamps are only 300 w bulbs, IIRC, so no, no tanning effect But fire that puppy off at full power and you do feel some heat with each pop, not to mention the energy wave off the head

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

2,400 Ws is pretty hefty;probably too much for digital but useful for LF.

Yeah- it's too powerful for digital, even dialed down to minimum power. But what I've got it for is for LF/ULF - I have an 8x10 studio portrait camera I use it with, and a 14x17 as well.

 

[Pieter12]

2,400 Ws is pretty hefty;probably too much for digital but useful for LF.

You don’t necessarily have to use full power all the time. The 2400 Ws does not have to go to a single lamphead, it can be divided (sometimes independently and asymmetrically) between heads. Plus, modifiers eat up power and just moving the lamp head a few feet will diminish its effective light. So, a 2400 Ws pack can easily be used with digital.

 

[wiltw]

You don’t necessarily have to use full power all the time. The 2400 Ws does not have to go to a single lamphead, it can be divided (sometimes independently and asymmetrically) between heads. Plus, modifiers eat up power and just moving the lamp head a few feet will diminish its effective light. So, a 2400 Ws pack can easily be used with digital.

If anything, the smaller format has the greater issue with too much power...
135 format 50mm f/8 has 2' DOF zone at 10' with 50mm f/8, 4x5 LF has 2' DOF zone at 10' at 150mm about f/20.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Yeah- it's too powerful for digital, even dialed down to minimum power. But what I've got it for is for LF/ULF - I have an 8x10 studio portrait camera I use it with, and a 14x17 as well.

In the case of digital paired with a powerful flash, one has to be careful of auto-ISO settings. When composing at ambient, the setting determines the ambient as to dim and cranks up the ISO, which in return is way too sensitive as soon as the flash fires. simple solution:turn off auto ISO or go into manual exposure mode and measure exposure with ahand-held meter.

 

[Mal Paso]

My regular studio lighting for Nikon FF Digital is a 2400 WS power pack with as many flash heads as needed. Nikon Native ISO is 64 and provides the best tonal range and least noise. Light Modifiers such as Soft Boxes, Umbrellas and Diffusers reduce the efficiency as compared with direct flash but that's the cost of Soft Light. My primary power packs have 3 capacitor banks that can be divided or combined, there is a global 3 Stop Flash Dimmer as well as Modeling Dimmers. The range is 25-2400 WS and I can add more power packs as needed.
I also have 2 Westcott 400WS and a 200WS that will do TTL and 1/8000 second plus full radio control but mostly I shoot in manual mode with the 2400 pack next to the camera. If I want to use 4x5 film I just crank up the power a bit. The Westcotts are great for locations without power where generators are too much although the inverter generators from Honda and Yamaha are quiet and reliable.
I wouldn't avoid power pack strobes especially at current prices used. My most expensive 2400 WS power pack with 1 head was less money than a single Westcott 400.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

In the case of digital paired with a powerful flash, one has to be careful of auto-ISO settings. When composing at ambient, the setting determines the ambient as to dim and cranks up the ISO, which in return is way too sensitive as soon as the flash fires. simple solution:turn off auto ISO or go into manual exposure mode and measure exposure with ahand-held meter.

I never use auto ISO.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I never use auto ISO.

it's a good thing with my Nikon d800 because ,I can limit the max ISO.

 

[Flashcam]

Seems that at 100 ISO more power is very useful. Power pack/strobe head systems worked well for that, especially for large format in studio. For current digital at high ISO the lightest weight setup may be the best since you don't usually need tons of power and can mix so well with available light. You can just figure out the f-stop you normally want to shoot at and get strobes that make that light level possible.

 

[Flashcam]

Rereading all of this, there is nothing said about using a handheld flashmeter... It must be hard to measure light output over the internet when you're trying to buy lights. We used to go to a shop or to a friends studio to see what was being used, and how. Years back there was a great manufacturer of strobe equipment just 30 miles away. When ever a head or pack got blown it could be repaired overnight. This was the winner when you worked with tight deadlines. You could have stuff custom built! It was Great! But they went under, and then I moved to the country, built a shooting space, had it wired by a local electrician, Plenty of amperage. Then tried a full length high white test, and wiped out the air conditioning and half the other circuts in the building in one pop(more of a twang) because the wires used were not heavy enough! But the power packs and heads survived!