Post or after developer spots

[ScandiPhoto]

Hi.
I got some film back from a very respectable lab. They told me that there were some spots, not from them, on the negatives.

Would you say these spots are before the development, (maybe kondensation on the casett slide?), during the development process, or from drying?

Kodak 160 Neg 4x5, scanned.

Thanks for any input and thoughts.

 

[koraks]

The first thing that comes to mind is water droplets on the film prior to development. This could be during handling when loading the film into the holders, when removing the film from the holders, or when handling the film in the lab just prior to development. There's no really reliable way to determine where in the process this would have happened. IMO the most likely stage is just prior to development when there's actually water around (in a processing/lab environment). I've never had any droplets like these occur on film when loading/unloading from holders because you'd typically do that in dry conditions.

If it were condensation, it would only occur on film that's taken straight out of the fridge/freezer and immediately opened. Did you do that? Even so, I'd then expect this to be all over the film surface, not in a couple of isolated spots.

 

[ScandiPhoto]

The first thing that comes to mind is water droplets on the film prior to development. This could be during handling when loading the film into the holders, when removing the film from the holders, or when handling the film in the lab just prior to development. There's no really reliable way to determine where in the process this would have happened. IMO the most likely stage is just prior to development when there's actually water around (in a processing/lab environment). I've never had any droplets like these occur on film when loading/unloading from holders because you'd typically do that in dry conditions.

If it were condensation, it would only occur on film that's taken straight out of the fridge/freezer and immediately opened. Did you do that? Even so, I'd then expect this to be all over the film surface, not in a couple of isolated spots.

No. but moving from outside to inside to photograph sometimes creates a bit of condensation. I normally wait for things to heat up. But droplets feel wrong. It should like you said be smudgier and less defined spots. But water droplets before developer should rinse away with the prewash (Don't know if dip and dunk machines uses pre-rinse.), or with the developer or?

It can be during loading/unloading. It's done in a dry Harrison tent.

When looking at the film in an arch (bending it) you quite clearly se the spot, almost like a tiny sharp dust spec on the film. I will re-rinse it and se what happens when it dries.

 

[koraks]

water droplets before developer should rinse away with the prewash

Droplets will create unevenness during development; the droplets themselves wash away, but constituents of the emulsion dissolve in the liquid and then deposit in other places. This affects how the color layers develop.

Don't know if dip and dunk machines uses pre-rinse

Generally not.

When looking at the film in an arch (bending it) you quite clearly se the spot, almost like a tiny sharp dust spec on the film.

Okay, that's an interesting clue as it may mean it's not a water droplet, but some sort of debris that deposited onto the film and then created an artifact. It's unclear what it might be. Perhaps something with a little moisture in it that migrates outward through the emulsion, affecting how it develops.

In any case, it looks like some kind of contamination problem due to how the film is being handled.

 

[DavidHopper]

Those spots seem more like moisture or condensation marks that happened before development, not lab mistakes. They usually look like this on 4x5 film when something touches the film before it's processed.

 

[ScandiPhoto]

Well. a Rinse took care of it, (did a very quick one). Should maybe have done that before posting.. sorry.
So I guess it must have been a post development problem. I will tell the lab.

 

[koraks]

Ah, that's nice; so looks like a classic drying mark. They're rare on 4x5, so I hadn't considered the option.