Polytoner not working?

[grainyvision]

So I have the book Darkroom Cookbook and decided to mix Polytoner, a simple formula with sodium carbonate, selenium toner, and brown toner. The supposed results are that it produces beautiful split tones with warm brown highlights and cool shadows. However, in my case I see no result unless I leave the print in a crazy long time, in which case it stains the paper to yellow and still seems to have no effect on the actual image. I've tried several different papers and different tweaks on the processing method which is basically:

1. Dilute polytone to 1:30
2. Put print in polytone solution for about 30 seconds
3. Move print without rinsing to a tray of water. Put the print in and do not agitate
4. When desired color is reached, take out and rinse normally

I've tried every possible take on these instructions, stronger dilution, longer time in solution, being more careful with how I put the print in the water bath, waiting 30+ minutes to see if anything happens...

Is there something special I'm missing? The brown toner mentioned is discontinued, but the brand I have (Arista?) has been reported everywhere to give the same results. The selenium toner mentioned is just normal Kodak rapid.

Does this maybe not work with modern emulsions now or something? Has anyone used this formula before?

 

[grainyvision]

Interesting point on this note "An extremely strong odor of hydrogen sulfide could be an indication of improper mixing. ". My mix definitely has a fairly strong smell of sulfur... "If this occurs, evacuate the mixing area immediately. Exposure to hydrogen sulfide can cause a rapid loss of sense of smell. High vapor concentrations can lead to collapse within seconds and may be fatal. " uhhh, not quite that strong though that it was overwhelming, unless I huff the fumes from the bottle. Once diluted it's a noticeable but slight smell.

Unfortunately the formula used there relies on Kodak brown toner. Since it seems Kodak brown toner contains lye, but the one I'm currently using does not use lye I assume that is a contributing factor.

Also I tried this with Ilford Warmtone papers in both RC and FB, no result on either.

 

[Arthurwg]

I still have a stash of original Polytoner and use it all the time. 1:20 for 7 min. works for me. 30 sec is be too little time. What's more, BTW, Tim Rudmn says that Kodak Brown Toner is very slow at 68F; may be used at 100F for 3 or 4 minutes. Ratio is aprox 1:31. If the high temperature is used, the emulsion may be weakened and Kodak recommends a harding bath.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

The paper type and developer has an effect. Some papers just won't take a tone. Go for papers that are known to take toners like Ilford Wamtone. In addition some developers work better in the toning, standard Dektol is perhaps the worst for this. Choose a warm tone developer or mix a formula that has more Hydroquinone and Potassium Bromide such as Selectol.

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

Nothing can replicate the original Kodak Polytoner. Sad because it's one of the most beautiful toner that was made.
I have a stock of bottles and they last forever.
With Moersch MT4 and MT5 you can get close to the polysulfide effect :The less you use, the stronger effect you get.
But still not like Kodak Polytoner.

 

[pentaxuser]

Nothing can replicate the original Kodak Polytoner. Sad because it's one of the most beautiful toner that was made.

Maybe the resurrection of Poyytoner will be the next piece of good news from Kodak that we keep hearing about. If Fuji can restore Acros in response to customer demand which never really went away anyway then why not Kodak and Polytoner

pentaxuser

 

[M Carter]

...If Fuji can restore Acros in response to customer demand...

But damn it Fuji, WHERE'S OUR ACROS IN 4x5?!??!!? That's what I want!!!

 

[DREW WILEY]

I've noticed that the Legacy Pro version of brown toner coming from Freestyle doesn't keep well once opened like Kodak brown toner did. I don't have an answer for that, but would certainly like to know. It does settle and needs to be shaken, but that still doesn't revive it.

 

[Renato Tonelli]

I've noticed that the Legacy Pro version of brown toner coming from Freestyle doesn't keep well once opened like Kodak brown toner did. I don't have an answer for that, but would certainly like to know. It does settle and needs to be shaken, but that still doesn't revive it.

Good to know for planning ahead of need. Does the mixture ('new' Polytoner) keep well?

 

[Ian C]

The labels of Legacy Pro Brown Toner lists sodium carbonate as an ingredient, but not sodium hydroxide. Kodak Brown Toner lists sodium hydroxide, but not sodium carbonate. In this respect at least, they are different.

I kept a bottle of Legacy Pro Brown Toner too long. After about two years after purchase the sulfides had precipitated to the bottom of the bottle, leaving nearly clear liquid above. No amount of shaking could dissolve the bottom precipitate into the liquid It had deteriorated beyond use.

I found that my results with Legacy Pro Brown Toner identical to what I get with home-mixed Kodak T8 polytoner, which is a great deal cheaper than the prepackaged LPBT. I obtained the polysulfides from Photographer’s Formulary. The T8 formula and an accurate scale makes it easy to mix just enough for the job at hand (you don't have to mix an entire liter if you don't need that much).

For successful toning in any direct sulfide toner (no separate bleach step) you need to choose a warm-tone paper, such as Ilford MG IV Warmtone (both FB and RC both tone well in a direct sulfide toner). If you chose Ilford MG IV FB, it will work, but the color isn’t as warm (not as red) and the effect seems weaker. This dosen’t work properly with most RC papers and usually results in no meaningful color change with cold-tone papers, but cold-tone FB papers can be toned in bleach-redevelopment sepia toners. Most RC papers that I tried don’t tone satisfactorily in sepia, although I had good results with the long-discontinued Kodak Polycontrast III RC paper.

Correction

I dug out an 8-ounee bottle Kodak Brown Toner and examined the ingredient list on the back of the label. I had to use a loupe to read if because the printing is quite small. The letter “a” for example is about 0.33” or 0.84 mm in height. It starts by listing potassium polysulfide and sodium hydroxide.

Then it has a long paragraph warning of the dangers of handling this product, followed by one labeled: First Aid, medical warnings, when to call a physician, advice for accidental contact, “keep out of reach of children”, advice to read the MSDS document, warnings about disposal of the container and so forth. At the bottom of this long list of warnings is:

“Additional Components include: Water (7732-18-5), Sodium carbonate (497-19-8)”.

So, it does contain sodium carbonate. Why these last two components are separated from the first two ingredients by so much other information is unknown to me. To the best of my recollection, the label on the Legacy Pro Brown Toner makes no reference to sodium hydroxide.