Polaroid: more than a glimmer of hope!

vdonovan

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Heather that's a good point about the Instax cameras. I've got a mini, which I find fun to use in a Holga sort of way: it's so limiting that it's challenging.

I doubt we're going to see more advanced Instax cameras from Fuji. Polaroid, in its heyday, had a big market: kids, amateurs, hobbyists, pro-sumers, and professionals. So they made cameras and film for all of those markets. Now the professional film market is dead, dead, dead. (By professional, I mean commercial photographers) So it's unlikely that we will see much in the way of pro-quality film cameras, especially instant, in the future. The pro-sumer market is pretty dead too. The photo enthusiast, the go-to guy in the family for pics at weddings and reunions, has got a Nikon D60.

It's the art student with the tattoos and weird haircut who's locked in his bedroom messing around with weird cameras and film. (Hey, that's me!) It's a market, but not a huge one.
 

Photo Engineer

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I have to point out that the Polaroid integral packs required solvent coating capablitiy as well as aqueous coating capability. This was due to the integral nature of the pack which required a hydrolytic shutdown procedure of a base in water dissolving a water impermeable membrane and releasing an acid.

Therefore, in view of Ilford's (both of them) past history, I doubt if either company could coat solvent. This means a real R&D effort if my guesstimate is true. I wish them good luck!

This is not going to be easy to re-engineer or redevelop.

PE
 
OP
OP

kraker

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Aurelien said:
Only integral? No peel apart?
Click to expand...

That's what it says on the site. And that is what makes sense if they are located in (part of) the old buildings of Polaroid Netherlands (Enschede): this was the last location to produce 600 integral; don't know if they ever did peel apart, but certainly not in the last years, if ever.
 

Prest_400

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Well, I wish the best luck to the project. While don't own a Polaroid and I'm not a fan of theirs It's nice that people try to keep everything alive.
If the factory is opened for visits someday, I'll pass there.
"Yes we can!" -Barack Obama
Click to expand...
 

vdonovan

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Why would they get into the peel-apart market? Fuji already makes Polaroid-compatible peel-apart film, so they would be competing against a well-established company for a very small market. Sure there are peel-apart products that Fuji doesn't make (like large format) but if the market for those products isn't big enough for Fuji to make a go of it, I doubt it's big enough for anyone else.
 

PHOTOTONE

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Actually, Fuji does make a large-format peel-apart material, however it is not (at this time) for camera use, rather it is used in the Fuji Pictography printers that expose a negative sheet to a laser imager sent by a computer, then a pod of chemicals is squeezed between the negative and the receiver sheet. After a bit, the final image comes out of the machine (the receiver sheet) and the negative sheet (which is not cut) is wound up on a spool inside to be disposed of after the whole role is used up. Technically I see no difference between this and the ULF material made by polaroid other than speed and method of exposure. The Fuji Pictography printer is a color printer which is connected to a computer just like an inkjet printer, but prints on the Pictography material, which for all practical purposes is a "version" of the Fuji Instant peel-apart print material, only in sizes up to 12" wide.
 

PHOTOTONE

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vdonovan said:
Now the professional film market is dead, dead, dead. (By professional, I mean commercial photographers)
Click to expand...

Well, I am a commercial photographer. I would be lost without my Fuji peel-apart instant films for testing for lighting and exposure and depth-of-field in my studio product photography on 4x5. So don't bury me yet.
 

wogster

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The go-to guy may have a D60, but probably also has a couple of film bodies he is nostalgic about, and will probably return to using in the near to moderate future. I think you will find that a lot of commercial photographers are not 100% digital either, there are times when nothing beats a large negative or transparency. Digital capture isn't perfect at everything, not by a long shot.
 

Alex Hawley

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The article says that the eccentric Austrian owner is working with Ilford. Hope he has a sound business plan and plenty of capital to work with.
 

AgX

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The Pictography system is a silver-halide based dye diffusion system, but there is thermal development.
In photoengineering it is considered as a system of its own.
 

Anscojohn

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When it says SX-70 and later 600, does it mean the en bloc films only? Great for people that like to scribble on those packets when developing, but what about people who use "real" cameras that can use self-developing film.
 

chriscrawfordphoto

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I hope they'll be available in the USA and won't cost $50 a pack. I have one of the Polarois SLR-690 cameras and I was upset that this incredible camera was going to be useless soon
 

PHOTOTONE

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Anscojohn said:
When it says SX-70 and later 600, does it mean the en bloc films only? Great for people that like to scribble on those packets when developing, but what about people who use "real" cameras that can use self-developing film.
Click to expand...

The factory they bought is only equipped with the equipment to make and assemble the SX-70 and 600 type integral films. They would not be making the peel-apart films. That technology requires many different machines they don't have. Wonder if the Polaroid plant in Mexico was also purchased by someone?

I think all the "Pro" films..the Type 55, Type 79, etc., were made at the MAIN polaroid plant in Cambridge, Mass. Now long closed. Wonder what happened to that machinery?
 

JBrunner

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Threads merged.
 

PHOTOTONE

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AgX said:
The Pictography system is a silver-halide based dye diffusion system, but there is thermal development.
In photoengineering it is considered as a system of its own.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the clarification. It IS a silver-halide based dye diffusion system, which is essentially (without being technical) what peel-apart instant films are.
 

Photo Engineer

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The peel apart system relies on the action of the separation of two sheets to essentially shut down development and further diffusion.

In the integral system, a complex series of water repellant and water attracting layers governs a complex timing sequence that shuts the film down. In addition, there is a complex indicator dye set in the white goo that must interact with the timing layer to prevent premature fogging of the image layers.

This whole integral material is a significantly more complex package than the peel apart, particularly when you consider that the goo is actually a layer that you create in-situ by ejecting the film unit and spreading the goo. The white goo becomes the white backing material for the image that is to form, and also forms the light tight layer to protect the film.

This is a non-trival photo engineering feat. Again, I wish them well.

PE
 

kevs

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I wish them well too, and I hope it's a financially viable project, especially in these uncertain times. However, when the boss tells a leading newspaper: "The project is more than a business plan; it's a fight against the idea that everything has to die when it doesn't create turnover.", one begins to wonder whether distant alarm-bells should be ringing...
 

nsouto

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Polaroid hope...

keping my fingers crossed Dead Link Removedmakes it to fruition!
 

suki_e

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hope so too! just read production may begin in 2010
 

hka

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Only Packfilm not 4*5" type 55. Enschede did not make any 4*5 sheetfilms in the past. So no equipment available over there.
 

FilmIs4Ever

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Ron, it is really hard to interpret this as anything other than showing off. . .
 
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