Plustek 120 Pro mini-review

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OK, but some exceptions can be made... Probably you have (say) a dozen shots you love specially, or they have some special qualities...

In such cases it can be funny to re-scan the film and making a different edition, or aesthetic interpretation.
Yes, I kept certain keepsake type 35mm slide shots of family and such that I particularly like. But the majority were thrown out after making slide shows. I have kept all my medium formats. But thirty years ago I made 16x20 framed pictures of thirty of them, now only three left. If I decide to make any future prints then I rescan the one or two or send out for a pro scan.
 

MattKing

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I can understand not planning to re-scan.
But a a box similar to the size that holds a dozen wine bottles is capable of holding for storage, in a very small volume, a massive amount of original, unmodified data in the form of negatives or slides.
That is pretty cheap insurance against all sorts of potential calamities.
 
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I can understand not planning to re-scan.
But a a box similar to the size that holds a dozen wine bottles is capable of holding for storage, in a very small volume, a massive amount of original, unmodified data in the form of negatives or slides.
That is pretty cheap insurance against all sorts of potential calamities.
Sometimes getting rid of the old lets you move on to the new. Otherwise you stay stuck in past performance rather than striking out to fresh discoveries.
 

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Sometimes getting rid of the old lets you move on to the new. Otherwise you stay stuck in past performance rather than striking out to fresh discoveries.
Unless you’re a hoarder of useless stuff like old newspapers or nail clippings, that’s one of the greatest fallacies doing the rounds currently.

If you don’t have the room, fair enough.
But I can think of hundreds of situations, in my own life only, where someone justified throwing out stuff because they lacked understanding or didn’t see its immediate value.
They are now getting blamed by spouses, the children, or are kicking themselves in the butt.

Negatives especially are just ridiculous to throw out. Unless you’re living on a shoestring budget in Tokyo or New York, where space is really, really at a premium.
 

Deleted member 88956

Sometimes getting rid of the old lets you move on to the new. Otherwise you stay stuck in past performance rather than striking out to fresh discoveries.
I don't know about "getting stuck in the past". As we age and see things in a new way, what opinion we had about an image years back can potentially change, quite often in a far more positive direction. This is not about memories being reevaluated, but a style of how an image was composed. At least I see that looking at quite old photographs and now with a lot more positive visual value, from composition to message etc. And unless one really doubles down on his digital storage, triple copied (with one buried under the house in a gamma ray proof box of course), there is no way to ensure such copies will hold their complete data indefinitely.

While I don't see a lot of logic in retaining ALL of the negatives, dumping them all or most isn't logical either. That also applies to family shots, perhaps even more so. I wish I had never given away my large vinyl jazz collection when years back I too fell into the digital music trap. There is an obvious convenience in digital whatever, but it holds far less value over time, and by value I don't mean a monetary one.
 

ckuwajima

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I can understand not planning to re-scan.
But a a box similar to the size that holds a dozen wine bottles is capable of holding for storage, in a very small volume, a massive amount of original, unmodified data in the form of negatives or slides.
That is pretty cheap insurance against all sorts of potential calamities.
I agree. And we have to remember that with regards to scanned photos, not only electronic devices holding the scanned files will eventually break, but also that their cloud backup may not survive an operations disaster, business failure and file format may become obsolete.
 
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I agree. And we have to remember that with regards to scanned photos, not only electronic devices holding the scanned files will eventually break, but also that their cloud backup may not survive an operations disaster, business failure and file format may become obsolete.

No. An image is in great danger while it exists on film. By scanning and adding it to a proper data management routine you are rescuing it. Your house burning down with your negatives is orders of magnitude more likely scenario than an electronic data loss, if done properly.

I can go in great detail into every possible concern you listed, but I will lazily fall back to "this is what I do for a living, take my word for it" instead.
 
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ckuwajima

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No. An image is in great danger while it exists on film. By scanning and adding it to a proper data management routine you are rescuing it. Your house burning down with your negatives is orders of magnitude more likely scenario that an electronic data loss, if done properly.

I can go in great detail into every possible concern you listed, but I will lazily fall back to "this is what I do for a living, take my word for it" instead.
You got me wrong. I am not saying that film only is the way to go, it is obvious that storing film for long term is not trivial.
What I say is scan, and heck, save the film.
I guess nothing is bullet proof.
 

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I haven't scanned all my slides and negatives, only the ones I want to print and subsequently put on my website. Scanning slides and negatives is really tedious. No reason to waste time doing so unless you actually need to.
 
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No. An image is in great danger while it exists on film. By scanning and adding it to a proper data management routine you are rescuing it. Your house burning down with your negatives is orders of magnitude more likely scenario that an electronic data loss, if done properly.

I can go in great detail into every possible concern you listed, but I will lazily fall back to "this is what I do for a living, take my word for it" instead.
When I was in business, I use to install and maintain fire alarm systems in NYC's high rise buildings. One of them was the American Bible Society on Broadway, a 12 story owner occupied building. On the second floor, they had a library of old and rare bibles and parts of the original Gutenberg printing press. The room had glass walls but was protected by about thirty large CO2 filled cylinders that would fill the room with gas if the alarm station was pulled in the room. You had about twenty seconds to get out of there before the gas would be released. After that you'd probably died from asphyxiation. But your body would be surrounded by the stored bibles that would be saved. :smile: Now they use Halon that's supposedly safer or some other chemical gas that would let you live, maybe.
 

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I talked to Plustek support. To their credit, they were fantastic.

That is good to hear. Excellent customer service is unfortunately not the norm anymore.
By the way there is an alternative at a lower price, but with proven, reliable operation: Reflecta MF 5000 (also available as Braun FS 120). Not with the same resolution and features as the Plustek, but much much better than Epson V850.

I like your suggestion of trying an Epson V850. I hope it's a lot better than the V600 (which I've had for about 5 years).

I've had used both. Yes, the V850 is visibly better than V600. But nevertheless the V850 remains a very low resolution flatbad scanner that destroys most of the quality a medium format film is offering. Depending on the film I've lost about 65 to 75% of the resolution compared to classic optical printing and slide projection (I've done several direct comparison tests).
Using a highest quality capture medium like 120 at first, and then destryoing most of its performance afterwards in the following imaging chain make very little sense.
Or to say it in other words: My 35mm film results optically printed (or projected) look better than my Epson flatbed medium format results.

If you don't have the space for a darkroom, but nevertheless wanting best performance, use transparency film:
- use the Schneider or Rodenstock 3x medium format loupe, both offer outstanding quality, better than any scanner (and at negligible costs)
- and / or use a medium format slide projector (they are meanwhile extremely cheap on the used market; go for a Rollei or Kindermann); medium format slide projection is absolutely a league of its own, delivering breathtakingly and unsurpassed image quality.
 

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Now they use Halon that's supposedly safer or some other chemical gas that would let you live, maybe.

I doubt it's Halon. That's some nasty stuff. Yes, you'll live, but it's a known carcinogen, and the oxidized material from after the dump is mildly corrosive.

I work in IT, and Halon was popular for years in datacenters, because it does a very good job of binding to oxygen. We had some flunky who was supposed to test fire-station pulls in our building walk into the data center, march up to the "pull in case of fire" handle (with a huge red sign saying "WARNING: HALON DUMP" over it), and pulled it anyway. 30 seconds later (When your entire datacenter goes off-line, you respond quickly), he was still standing there, hand on handle, looking terrified, standing in a 3 foot cloud bank with strobes going off.

Unless the room is totally air-tight, it's only going to temporarily remove the oxygen, even for the CO2 systems. The last I heard, nitrogen is popular-- it's inert, common, and is usually enough to squash out the oxygen that's feeding the fire-- and doesn't leave a nasty, slightly greasy residue on everything. It's not quite as good, as it has to displace the oxygen, rather than consume it, but it still works.
 
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I doubt it's Halon. That's some nasty stuff. Yes, you'll live, but it's a known carcinogen, and the oxidized material from after the dump is mildly corrosive.

I work in IT, and Halon was popular for years in datacenters, because it does a very good job of binding to oxygen. We had some flunky who was supposed to test fire-station pulls in our building walk into the data center, march up to the "pull in case of fire" handle (with a huge red sign saying "WARNING: HALON DUMP" over it), and pulled it anyway. 30 seconds later (When your entire datacenter goes off-line, you respond quickly), he was still standing there, hand on handle, looking terrified, standing in a 3 foot cloud bank with strobes going off.

Unless the room is totally air-tight, it's only going to temporarily remove the oxygen, even for the CO2 systems. The last I heard, nitrogen is popular-- it's inert, common, and is usually enough to squash out the oxygen that's feeding the fire-- and doesn't leave a nasty, slightly greasy residue on everything. It's not quite as good, as it has to displace the oxygen, rather than consume it, but it still works.
Thanks for the update. I was in business twenty plus years ago. So I'm not up to date with the recent suppression materials. At one time there was Halon II because of the problems with the original. Most places use water sprinkler systems. But you don't want to use those in electronic areas or if you have materials like old bibles you don't want ruined. The Carbon Dioxide system in the Bible Society was actually illegal at the time by NYC Building Codes. But it had been installed years earlier when it was legal So it was grandfathered and allowed to remain without updating it. I wonder what they're doing now?
 

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No. An image is in great danger while it exists on film. By scanning and adding it to a proper data management routine you are rescuing it. Your house burning down with your negatives is orders of magnitude more likely scenario than an electronic data loss, if done properly.

I can go in great detail into every possible concern you listed, but I will lazily fall back to "this is what I do for a living, take my word for it" instead.

Amen to that... yep, your house burning down will do your negatives in. I still like having the negatives, but also like having a good digital copy of the keepers. Since I also shoot digitally for paid work, having a very good backup strategy is key. Remember, something isn’t truly backed up unless you have at least 3 copies in 3 physically different places. I keep one copy on my file server at home, a copy on an external hard drive at home and at my work office just so I have it if I need relatively fast access if the file server goes down, and multiple copies in multiple cloud services that I can access relatively easily, though much slower, as those are encrypted and not accessible until I get tool sets in place to decrypt the files.. For the data I really, really don’t want to lose, in addition to to the cloud storage, I have a pair of external SSDs that I cycle between my house and a secure lock box that I pay for. Once a month or so, I swap the drives so that the stored drive is mover more than 30 days out of sync, which is fine as this sort of data doesn’t change super frequently, and really just there for that last little bit of peace of mind.

the key is simplicity. You want to make it very simple to keep everything in sync. For that I designate a folder on the drive that is the “permanent archive” and if I don’t want to lose something, it goes into that folder structure. From there, I have a fair amount of code that replicates it to the various cloud services and makes copies to the various drives.
 

Deleted member 88956

Amen to that... yep, your house burning down will do your negatives in. I still like having the negatives, but also like having a good digital copy of the keepers. Since I also shoot digitally for paid work, having a very good backup strategy is key. Remember, something isn’t truly backed up unless you have at least 3 copies in 3 physically different places. I keep one copy on my file server at home, a copy on an external hard drive at home and at my work office just so I have it if I need relatively fast access if the file server goes down, and multiple copies in multiple cloud services that I can access relatively easily, though much slower, as those are encrypted and not accessible until I get tool sets in place to decrypt the files.. For the data I really, really don’t want to lose, in addition to to the cloud storage, I have a pair of external SSDs that I cycle between my house and a secure lock box that I pay for. Once a month or so, I swap the drives so that the stored drive is mover more than 30 days out of sync, which is fine as this sort of data doesn’t change super frequently, and really just there for that last little bit of peace of mind.

the key is simplicity. You want to make it very simple to keep everything in sync. For that I designate a folder on the drive that is the “permanent archive” and if I don’t want to lose something, it goes into that folder structure. From there, I have a fair amount of code that replicates it to the various cloud services and makes copies to the various drives.
I assume the idea of "superior" digital data security over physical negatives is one with cloud storage, not in the drawer that used to hold those negatives, which would have burned down irrespective of content.
 

Wallendo

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Amen to that... yep, your house burning down will do your negatives in. I still like having the negatives, but also like having a good digital copy of the keepers. Since I also shoot digitally for paid work, having a very good backup strategy is key. Remember, something isn’t truly backed up unless you have at least 3 copies in 3 physically different places. I keep one copy on my file server at home, a copy on an external hard drive at home and at my work office just so I have it if I need relatively fast access if the file server goes down, and multiple copies in multiple cloud services that I can access relatively easily, though much slower, as those are encrypted and not accessible until I get tool sets in place to decrypt the files.. For the data I really, really don’t want to lose, in addition to to the cloud storage, I have a pair of external SSDs that I cycle between my house and a secure lock box that I pay for. Once a month or so, I swap the drives so that the stored drive is mover more than 30 days out of sync, which is fine as this sort of data doesn’t change super frequently, and really just there for that last little bit of peace of mind.

the key is simplicity. You want to make it very simple to keep everything in sync. For that I designate a folder on the drive that is the “permanent archive” and if I don’t want to lose something, it goes into that folder structure. From there, I have a fair amount of code that replicates it to the various cloud services and makes copies to the various drives.

A very rational approach.

Most online discussions of this sort tend to involve posters with fundamentalist attitudes on one side or the other.

My backup approach is similar to that you describe. I am a hobbyist/enthusiast so my process is less complicated but I do save all my negatives and slides, scan all of them and save them on my hard drive, a portable hard drive, Time Machine drive, Carbonite back-up and multiple clouds. Occasionally, I write important files to recordable blu-rays which should survive an electromagnetic pulse. I figure that any disaster large enough to wipe out all those sources would be unsurvivable.
 

grat

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A negative, stored with minimal care, can last for decades barring disasters.

An electronic file, stored with the same level of care, will be difficult to read 5 years later, almost impossible 10 years later, and a random pile of inaccessible bits in 20 years.

An electronic file, stored properly, maintained and managed-- will be available decades from now, and look exactly as good as it did the day it was created.

Most people don't put the effort into maintaining digital archives-- parities, checksums, disk maintenance, etc.. I know all these things, and I barely qualify-- I have very good on-site storage (parity data, verified once a month, smart reporting on drive status, etc.), but very poor off-site.
 

Helge

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House fires vary wildly according to geography, and house type.
Even if you gather you have a chance of it happening, you can get fireproof boxes that will protect important papers and negatives.

Most preservationists agree (weasel words I know, but do your own research), that digital data is far more likely to get lost and get corrupted than analog data imprinted in/on a physical medium.
Especially in the long run.
And as always it hugely depends on whether stuff it just thrown in box and put in a deep damp cellar for decades, or lovingly stored.
That goes for digital data too.

It goes without saying that it’s better to have both, but if I had to choose for the long run, I’d take the physical analog medium in a heartbeat.
 
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faberryman

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A negative, stored with minimal care, can last for decades barring disasters.

An electronic file, stored with the same level of care, will be difficult to read 5 years later, almost impossible 10 years later, and a random pile of inaccessible bits in 20 years.

An electronic file, stored properly, maintained and managed-- will be available decades from now, and look exactly as good as it did the day it was created.

I don't do anything special and have 20 year old files that open fine.
 

grat

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I don't do anything special and have 20 year old files that open fine.

State of the art 20 years ago for hard drives was IDE, or SCSI. While both are still accessible, most consumer-grade hardware doesn't have those connectors as standard.

SATA was announced in 2000-- It's possible there was hardware available by Sept. 2000, so it's conceivable that you could have a SATA HDD from 2000 that still works-- but unlikely.

If it's a recordable DVD or CD, congratulations-- your media has lasted beyond it's expected lifespan.

On the other hand, if you've done what I've done, and copy data from an old drive to a new drive (and verify the copy), then you've actually done some data management, and that's not the equivalent of throwing it in an acid-free envelope in a binder (the easiest way to store negatives).
 

faberryman

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If it's a recordable DVD or CD, congratulations-- your media has lasted beyond it's expected lifespan.

I recently installed Office 2003 on my new laptop from the original installation CD.

I lost my first 30 years of negatives in a move. I have no idea what happened to them.
 
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