Plus-X in HC-110 Round 2

[Jedidiah Smith]

Just wanted to report back to all who helped on the first round of processing in my new darkroom. Things are going MUCH better now.
Something was definitely wrong with those first 2 rolls of Plus-X that I developed in HC-110. Either I was way off on the ratio, temp, too much agitation, light leak, or something.
How I really knew there was a problem, was that next I developed 3 rolls of Tri-X in the HC-110, one at dilution B and two at dilution A. Really like the dilution A results. To make a long story short, the Tri-X had finer grain and much better tones than the Plus-X rolls. That should not be, obviously!

Round 2 went much better. Here is a scanned print of my new result: My wife on 35mm Plus-X developed in HC-110 at dilution A for 3 minutes. Shot with Minolta XD-11, 50mm f1.4.
Grain is just beginning to show at 8x10 prints, but very fine, "beautiful looking" grain, and tones are gorgeous.

By the way, I still am using the Arista Premium fixer, but I doubled the strength (now 1:4) and fixed for 5 min. Still a little pink left on the negs, so I will go up to 7 min on the next roll.

Thanks again!
Jed

 

[MattKing]

Jedidiah:

I don't think I've ever encountered anyone before who uses dilution A .

Results look good. Be careful with 3 minute developing times, because it can be hard to maintain consistency.

I was a little surprised at your first thread, because I really like Plus-X in HC-110. I would have posted there, but I didn't have any 35mm examples.

Matt

 

[Jedidiah Smith]

Hi Matt, thanks for the note about dilution A. Well, not sure what to do with this HC-110 to tell you the truth, then. I like fine grain, because it's 35mm film, and needs quite a bit of enlargement. I just seemed to get finer grain with the dilution A than I did with anything else. Does this make sense? I mean, should dilution A give finer grain?
Is there something else I should try with the dilutions, or just cross my fingers and go with dilution A because I like the result better?
Thanks,
Jed

 

[Ronald Moravec]

In theory A should get finer grain at some loss of sharpness.

As said above, nobody uses A because of the short times. That said, I do C41 for 3.25 so it works in practice. Establish a procedure and stick to it. I suggest dropping the loaded reel into the tank prefilled with developer, cap and agitate. I start my clock 5 sec early , count back and drop. Include the drain time thru the top as part of 3 min or whatever works for you. Be consistent.

BTW, tri x at half speed, 1:45 from stock, 4.5 min at 68 make beautiful negs.

Ilford`s archival wash sequence works well. Use a gallon jug with 68 deg water. I modify by using 6 oz in the 8 oz tank and inverting, four cycles instead of 3.

TF4 clears my Plus x in 3 min, 1:4 dilution. No ss or ware rinse a developer and fix are both alkaline so the is no base/alkaline transition.

 

[Ektagraphic]

That is really nice!! Is that print that you scanned toned or is it on a warm paper?

 

[MattKing]

Jedidiah:

If you are having trouble with grain with HC-110, I would suggest a more dilute mixture, and adjustment of the agitation.

I am going to attach a scan of a portion of an 11x14 print I made recently. The negative was shot on Plus-X in 120 and developed in HC-110, dilution E with continuous rotary agitation.

The original negative is a 6x7 negative. If the crop is calculated correctly, it is approximately equal to that portion of the negative which corresponds to 24mm x 36mm, and represents about a 7x enlargement of that portion (I think).

The print is on pearl surface paper.

I think that the scan shows that the grain is quite fine. The print itself appears almost grain free when examined at arm's length.

Hope this helps.

Matt

 

[Ektagraphic]

Nice Matt! I am loving this Plus-X

 

[Jedidiah Smith]

Hi Ektagraphic,
Yes, Kodak Plus-X is a beautiful "classic" style emulsion. I shot tons of this stuff back in Alaska, but developed always in D76 or xtol. (I'm obviously having a little trouble w/ the HC-110.) There is some grain compared to T-Max 100, but it is old school grain so to speak - in that it is very fine and beautiful looking, not sharp or detracting from the image. Almost like you know it's supposed to be there, so your eye doesn't settle on it really. Does that make sense?
The scan is a straight scan from the print, no manipulation. Print is slightly warm, on some "cheap RC paper" from Freestyle and with Arista Premium liquid paper developer. I will be going back to Dektol after I use this bottle up, though. Also want to get into using ADOX's new batch of the old Agfa paper. That stuff is classic! (Also slightly on the warm side as well.)

Matt and Ron, thanks for the updates. Yes, the grain looks good in your example. I'm not worried about a little "good looking grain". The stuff I got last week was just awful, huge and really gritty is the only way I can describe it. Kind of reminded me of pop-corn!

I will try Dilution B with Plus-X and see what happens. Can I pick your brain on the agitation? I have one of those black plastic tanks with the little twirly stick in the middle. I've been doing 15 secs. of constant, gentle twirling after I pour the developer in, then three twirls at 30 secs, followed by three good twirls of that stick at every minute.
Example today: Pour HC-110 dil. A in tank. Twirl until timer shows 15 sec. Then twirl 3 times at 30 sec. Then again at 1min, 2min, and 2:45min, then begin to drain tank right as timer hits 3min. I like the results with this roll today, but maybe I need more / less agitation? Any comments on this would help.

Also, I always rate Plus-X at ISO 100. Just easier for me, and gives it just a touch of extra light in case I'm a fraction off. (What, me off? Kidding!)
Thanks again for the help,
Jed

 

[Chuck_P]

I like fine grain, because it's 35mm film, and needs quite a bit of enlargement. I just seemed to get finer grain with the dilution A than I did with anything else.

If you like fine grain with your 35mm negs, then I would use straight d-76 (unless that pesky shelf life issue gets in the way), it's a much higher sulfite developer and will put a softer edge on the grain and result in finer grain. HC-110 is a low sulfite developer and will give more acutance to the grain which I happen to like but that's me.

Just a thought.

 

[2F/2F]

Dilution A is a way to get finer grain, shorter times, or more contrast at a given development time versus dilution B. However, the difference in grain will be barely noticeable, and only in big enlargements. HC-110 inherently is a pretty fine-grained developer with high solvent action. Relatively speaking, in the grand scheme of developers, it does not cause a lot of grain (less than D-76 IME), and in the end, the short development times from using dilution A can have a worse effect on your pix than the almost imperceptible difference in grain.

Two of the problems with short development times are:

1. The effects of minor variations in processing between batches (such as slightly different pour times, sightly different agitation periods, etc.) are magnified versus higher dilutions, as the slight variations amount to a larger percentage of the total developing time. Thus, higher dilutions will give more consistency batch to batch.

2. You stand a higher chance of running into uneven development with such short developing times. I believe Kodak recommends not going below five minutes.

FWIW, Kodak's listed time for Tri-X 400 (TX) in dilution B, 3:45, is actually the time for dilution A, and they have never acknowledged their misprint, so there is currently no published time for TX in dilution B that is both official and correct. Normal time for TX in dilution B should be 6 - 7 minutes.

 

[Ektagraphic]

Well, I really like the look! I just ordered some HC-110 and ADOX paper a couple of days ago and I have never tried either of them and I am extremely excited to try the ADOX because I know how much people loved the Agfa. I develop in Dektol and it has always given me outstanding results.

 

[MattKing]

Matt and Ron, thanks for the updates. Yes, the grain looks good in your example. I'm not worried about a little "good looking grain". The stuff I got last week was just awful, huge and really gritty is the only way I can describe it. Kind of reminded me of pop-corn!

I will try Dilution B with Plus-X and see what happens. Can I pick your brain on the agitation? I have one of those black plastic tanks with the little twirly stick in the middle. I've been doing 15 secs. of constant, gentle twirling after I pour the developer in, then three twirls at 30 secs, followed by three good twirls of that stick at every minute.
Example today: Pour HC-110 dil. A in tank. Twirl until timer shows 15 sec. Then twirl 3 times at 30 sec. Then again at 1min, 2min, and 2:45min, then begin to drain tank right as timer hits 3min. I like the results with this roll today, but maybe I need more / less agitation? Any comments on this would help.

Also, I always rate Plus-X at ISO 100. Just easier for me, and gives it just a touch of extra light in case I'm a fraction off. (What, me off? Kidding!)
Thanks again for the help,
Jed

Jed:

(May I call you Jed? ).

I assume your tank doesn't permit inversion.

I'd consider mixing the "twirls" with what I refer to as "figure-eight" agitation - sliding the tank on a flat surface, in a figure-eight pattern.

The goal is to make sure that depleted developer is mixed with and replaced by un-depleted developer on a regular basis. If you make the agitation procedure more random, you can reduce the frequency and intensity of agitation.

The initial agitation seems good.

If I were you I'd try either dilution B or E, with something like one twirl, and one figure-eight each minute.

Matt

 

[Jedidiah Smith]

Hi Matt,
Yeah, "Jed" is fine.
I'll try that on my next roll and see what happens. I still don't know if I'll stick with this HC-110, but I bought it, so I may as well learn how to use it properly! Coming from D76 / Xtol, it's just a little different beast.
Thanks for the good pointers!

EDIT: I just had a patient come in today, whose name is Matt King...cool!
Jed

 

[stradibarrius]

I developed some Plus-X last week in HC-110 for the first time 1:50 @68 deg for 8 min. and it turned out great! I have always used D-76 or XTOL with Plus-X before but the more I use HC-110 the more I like it.

 

[SilverGlow]

Jed, I've found that using Clayton's F76 (D76 wannabe) made for nearly grain-free images for Plus-X...silky smooth transitions, great graduations, nice contrast too. I've not gotten so good with HC-110 however....