Please Suggest a Good, Reliable Photo Lab

[bblhed]

Is their work worth the price? I am willing to pay for quality, as for the attitude, there are ways of shutting that down as well if the work is that good, tell them so with a phrase like, "You do excellent work and it is worth what you charge for it, but I really would prefer it if you did not speak to me that way". If that doesn't work try "I come here because you do good work and your local, but if your attitude doesn't change you won't be seeing my money any more", enough people say things similar they will get the idea.

I will add that I like the print work that Dwain's photo does, but I think it is inkjet.

I think this is a wonderful idea
here goes

Elevator in Toronto

film prices are really high.
Print prices are obscene
The owner/ printer is an obnoxious short little prick who hates dealing with people.

they have been printing in the GTA (4 million people} for the last twenty years and have continued to pay their rent and staff for that time. I cannot understand how they are still in business?
Their work is in Museums, Gallerys and private collections , now spreading to every nook and cranny of this little planet.


all in all a lab you should avoid at all costs if you think their rates are too high.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I just find this Thread totally offensive from the get go , some of the best work in the photographic field is done in quality labs all over the world, and the OP thinks otherwise which is his/her option, opinion, but I do not agree one bit with the direction of this Thread .

btw I am the short ugly one.
As far as this respect thing , it works both ways, 25 years of front counter relationships with clients tell me that.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I am referring to myself , I think all other printers have better personality's than me.

This thread really pisses me off. I would love to know what the OP does for a living and rate his/her profession, job.
Now don't you think that would be fair?

Bob, are you in the same business? Competitors are usually not objective.
My apology if I am mistaken.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I am the short one.

I got that way from too many years clients beating me down.

Is the short guy you or your partner? Checked out your web site - NICE!

 

[PVia]

Good work costs money in any field.

If you're not willing to put in the time (at least 10,000 hours) to learn it yourself, invest the money to buy the proper equipment and everything else you have to do to have total control, then you have to let a pro do it. Everyone thinks that if they buy the same equipment as a pro lab uses, they can get the same results. Wrong...

What you're paying for is not their time or their equipment, it's the 20 years of experience and daily lessons of sweat and grime that makes them good.

You get what you pay for...send it out to Bob Carnie in Toronto or A&I in LA. If you're not happy, happy doesn't exist in your world. Period.

 

[Sirius Glass]

How about putting a list someplace of all the labs, how and what they process prints and let people rate them.

I would love to find an all optical print shop because I suck at that, but I want optical prints for some things. I can get an image on the film that pleases me, I can make a great ink jet print, but it all falls apart when I try to go optical print so I would like to have someplace do that for me until I can do it well myself.

Great all optical work. Really crappy website: http://goldencolor.com/

He has printed 24"x36" from C-41 35mm for me. He only does color, but he printed a 6x6 black & white negative on metallic color paper in monochrome [30"x30"] that will knock your eyes out. If you use him mention APUG and see if you can get him to support APUG.

Steve

 

[CGW]

I'd like to like you, Bob. But 45 bucks for 4 120 rolls is brutal for a non-pro shooter, even a hardcore non-pro shooter like moi. Maybe when my larceny and/or photographic skills improve? Love your printing.

 

[SuzanneR]

I think the most important thing is to develop a good relationship with your lab. They can bring a lot to the table. I do my own processing, and much of my own printing, but use a lab for larger prints, and have also had them help me print negs that have been hard for me for whatever reason. It's expensive to be sure, but it has improved my own printing to work with them. I think most professional labs are quite good, and to send off a roll to lab A, and a roll to lab B, and decide based on one roll is not the best way to go. Send a few rolls over a few months... chat with them about what you want, how you want the work to look. I don't see why any professional lab that is convenient to you wouldn't want to do a good job, and the best way to get there is to work with them over a few months.

BTW, I've seen Bob print, and he is an awesome printer, and if I didn't have a lab some ten minutes from my house that I have developed a good working relationship with, then I'd probably take my prints to Elevator.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I will put together a list for tommorow of about 15 labs who I think are great or at least working at an extremely high level. I will make some obvious mistakes and miss some really great operations and for this I apologize.
All of them have prices that make me envious and work with wonderful artists.
They all have some obnoxious character within their operations keeping the printing alive and actually using the materials everyone here on APUG is passionate about.

While I am pissing about on this thread , today I am printing a enlarger based show and will be doing so tommorow as well. I hope the OP is as passionate , since he/she wants to be the critic ,I will encourage this person send film to the 15 labs I suggest, and give his/her opinion.
Once I hear a level , reasoned critique of each labs abilitys, I will then tip my hat off to this person for not only talking a good game, but as well following through and creating something of worth to this community of film based photographers.

I am sorry to be such an ass, but this person (OP) wants to be a film critic of existing labs and their technicians, well step up to the plate. Spend some money and really show APUG 'rs a resource for film processing..
Rather than just knocking those of us still willing to provide a service for a extremely dwindling market.

 

[cfclark]

You get what you pay for...send it out to Bob Carnie in Toronto or A&I in LA. If you're not happy, happy doesn't exist in your world. Period.

I'd have to agree--what Bob charges is slightly on the high side, but not by much, based on what I've been paying at Freestyle. If there's $45 of value in the $45 per run price, then I don't see a problem with it. If it's too high, then you are welcome to shop around or develop the skills (and buy the equipment) to do it yourself.

The OP asked for a good, reliable photo lab--given the state of the film world, there are good, reliable photo labs and cheap photo labs, but probably not any good, reliable, cheap photo labs that will be in business for very long.

(BTW, although the Canadian dollar is at rough parity with the US dollar these days, if that's $45 Canadian, that 's about $43 US, FWIW (about $2).)

 

[PVia]

I'd like to like you, Bob. But 45 bucks for 4 120 rolls is brutal for a non-pro shooter, even a hardcore non-pro shooter like moi. Maybe when my larceny and/or photographic skills improve? Love your printing.

That's $10.75 a roll (120) American. For E6, I pay $10 here in LA, C41 is about the same or slightly less last time I sent out.

If it's B&W you're talking about, you need to do your own. There's no excuse.

If you add up what the chems cost to do it at home, and an investment in a rotary processor that you amortize, and the time it takes, you won't find that it's much cheaper. Chems are about $4 and an hour of your time...so there you have it; even without the processor you're up to way over $10 already.

 

[lxdude]

Freestyle actually sends out to Swan Photo Labs (at least in the case of my B&W 120 stuff), which does a pretty good job in my experience. You can deal with them directly: http://www.swanphotolabs.com (Not that I have anything against Freestyle, but if you're not dropping your film off, why send to them and have them send it again?)

I've used Swan for E-6 and had them scan transparencies and print. I used to go right to their place in San Clemente. I didn't realize then that they're such a big outfit. It turns out I can drop film off at my local camera shop and Swan will pick it up and return it. Turnaround is IIRC 3 or 4 days. Good work, fair prices. They pick up at camera shops throughout California and a few in AZ, NM, NV, and WA.

 

[MattKing]

If I couldn't do my own B & W film development, I'd either:
1) Pay Bob Carnie's prices; or
2) Shoot chromogenic B & W, and get one of the good C-41 pro labs around here to do my developing for me.

There is still enough volume in film in my area that I can count on pro lab quality when it comes to C-41, and the price for developing is lower than Bob, but not cheap. Proof prints aren't especially expensive either, but they aren't discount lab priced either.

If you are looking for good, reliable quality, Bob's prices are good value, because of the high quality Elevator provides. If you need lower prices, than it is harder to find a good high quality resource, because there are fewer labs who can offer high quality but still offer lower costs, as a result of volume pricing.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Actually my rates vary.
The $45 per run is for walk off the street , never met you before client.
The amount of these clients are small to nill.

For those who know their Jobos will conclude that I can get 8 rolls of 120 on the reels, not 4 therefore my price just cut in half.

Why do I only run 4?????? am I trying to gouge the marketplace?????

simple answer- when you double load a 120 film onto a jobo reel, you have to put one of those stupid, little red thimigig buttons to hold the first film in place.
We have found that sometimes they come loose and the two rolls will shift and sometimes overlap and create problems.. Try it yourself , after about 100 runs you will get one run with overlap, I assure you this to be true.

Therefore my savvy clients run 220 black white film or, or, or understand the risk they will be taking if I double load trix.. For all our inhouse film I double load 120.

Who uses us???? Well I can say I have been on APUG for a long time, at one point I was a PARTNER and now I am a subscriber just like most of you.
My film business does not come from this forum or for that matter any other forum. I am OK with that and I am here because I want to learn and sometimes help out.

My rates are set for my heavy users , and there are a few and though the process prices never changes, we spend a lot of time with our clients helping them get the most out of film, which is the non written benifit of using a lab, that uses ONE shot Chemistry , exact time temp rotary process,
distilled water for the Devs, a skilled technician running the film.


do we make mistakes,,,,, Yes,,,, last time I went to my favorite restaurant I was unhappy with the pork dumplings, slightly overcooked, but rather than yell at my chef I accepted this very slight error due to the fact 99% of the time he delivers exactly what I want.

I hope this clarifys a few points, about why the rate is where it is.
One last factor, GTA of Toronto has heavy rates per square foot, always over $20 per sqft, it is an expensive city to operate a film business.

 

[Bob Carnie]

List of Labs to Try **I am going to miss some very good operations and to those labs I apologize if you are not on my list**

Historically Great Labs who may still process your film, or at least have the ability to do so.

Metro Lab- London UK- ongoing top end lab
Downtown Darkroom- Mike Spry- my personal printing hero
Picto- Paris - Fashion Lab with probably the best stories
Salto - Belgium
Duggal Lab - New York
Griffith Editions - New York
Lamount Imaging - New York
Kelton Labs - New York
** there are probably 15 other labs in New York that fall into my list**
Digital Silver Imaging - Boston- Eric Luetens passionate owner
Dalmation Labs - South Carolina
Toronto Image Works - founder Ed Burtynski
Dmax Labs - Toronto - Andre Larado
Elevator - Toronto - obnoxious owner
Cox BW Lab - Ca
West Coast Imaging- Ca
DR5 - Mid West
Icon - Ca
A&I - Ca

So here you go OP , give these folks a try, get to know the owners or lab managers, run a lot of film and I can assure you one of these labs will give you what you need.

 

[FilmOnly]

I find some of the above discussion both offensive and puzzling. It is as if some are questioning my veracity.

I have been dealing with this issue for several years, and have yet to find a lab anywhere that will stand by its work. In my latest incident, the lab tried to blame their errors on me. This, of course, has happened before, but I have decided to try perhaps one more lab (again, after going through about a dozen over the years), and see what happens.

I think it should be clear in this thread, and in my other related thread, that I do not claim to be able to perform the various associated tasks, even with the correct equipment. It is an insult, though, to be told that I would have to pay to have someone else's mistakes corrected. If they had admitted that it were their mistake and offered to correct the problem for free, I would have not posted this thread. They also displayed only a meager understanding of photography and lenses (again, see my "Black Specs" thread).

 

[FilmOnly]

After reviewing Bob's comments more thorougly, I am even more offended than I was before I made the above post. I have already done the type of sampling of labs that he suggests, as I have been through about a dozen labs, both in my local area and via mail order. I have seen, heard, and felt the "your amateur prints are not important to us" attitude before, and, overall, I think I have been quite patient with this condescending tone that has been so common in my experience. In fact, after giving this some serious consideration, I think that, if anything, I have been too nice to these labs. I have yet to try to place blame on anyone, and, recently, at the mere suggestion that it were not my fault, all I got in return was "Well, we will fix it, but you wil have to pay such and such." Perhaps if I worked for Getty Images, the situation might be a bit different?

PS: A few months ago, I even approved of an upcharge in shipping fees because the lab said that it was "losing money" in shipping to me because I live on the east coast. I have yet to see their posted rates (in print or on their Web page) rise accordingly for east coast shipments.

I have thought about this thoroughly, and I could come up with no cause for the manner in which I have been treated, either by the lab in question, or by the other labs I have used over the years.

PPS: Bob's abusive language and offensive tone should have been corrected on the first page of this thread. I had ignored his initial insulting comment (which contains foul language), but his other comments have served to magnify his first comment.

 

[Ektagraphic]

It's all about finding a lab who's staff and owners heart is in it for the love of film. That way the result is most of the time satisfactory.

 

[FilmOnly]

You are right, Ektagraphic, and I genuinely hope to find such a lab, as I enjoy film photography.

 

[Ektagraphic]

I don't want to keep pressing down with it but...I have found Blue Moon to be this place. I also reccomend Praus Productions in Rochester, New York. A little more on the expensive side and they don't even offer a develop and proof service, (as far as I know) but they are very good.

 

[CGW]

Actually my rates vary.
The $45 per run is for walk off the street , never met you before client.
The amount of these clients are small to nill.

For those who know their Jobos will conclude that I can get 8 rolls of 120 on the reels, not 4 therefore my price just cut in half.

Why do I only run 4?????? am I trying to gouge the marketplace?????

simple answer- when you double load a 120 film onto a jobo reel, you have to put one of those stupid, little red thimigig buttons to hold the first film in place.
We have found that sometimes they come loose and the two rolls will shift and sometimes overlap and create problems.. Try it yourself , after about 100 runs you will get one run with overlap, I assure you this to be true.

Therefore my savvy clients run 220 black white film or, or, or understand the risk they will be taking if I double load trix.. For all our inhouse film I double load 120.

Who uses us???? Well I can say I have been on APUG for a long time, at one point I was a PARTNER and now I am a subscriber just like most of you.
My film business does not come from this forum or for that matter any other forum. I am OK with that and I am here because I want to learn and sometimes help out.

My rates are set for my heavy users , and there are a few and though the process prices never changes, we spend a lot of time with our clients helping them get the most out of film, which is the non written benifit of using a lab, that uses ONE shot Chemistry , exact time temp rotary process,
distilled water for the Devs, a skilled technician running the film.


do we make mistakes,,,,, Yes,,,, last time I went to my favorite restaurant I was unhappy with the pork dumplings, slightly overcooked, but rather than yell at my chef I accepted this very slight error due to the fact 99% of the time he delivers exactly what I want.

I hope this clarifys a few points, about why the rate is where it is.
One last factor, GTA of Toronto has heavy rates per square foot, always over $20 per sqft, it is an expensive city to operate a film business.

****
OK, so the $45/4x120 is actually $45/8X120 if the customer is willing to accept the risks? That I'd do. Besides, I'd only be walking in off the street once, right? Sadly, the 220 b&w selection is very limited.It's your rep and the quality of the work it's based on that interest me. You stand your ground--why's that regarded as unusual? Thanks!

 

[Stephen Frizza]

I think this is a wonderful idea
here goes

Elevator in Toronto

film prices are really high.
Print prices are obscene
The owner/ printer is an obnoxious short little prick who hates dealing with people.

they have been printing in the GTA (4 million people} for the last twenty years and have continued to pay their rent and staff for that time. I cannot understand how they are still in business?
Their work is in Museums, Gallerys and private collections , now spreading to every nook and cranny of this little planet.


all in all a lab you should avoid at all costs if you think their rates are too high.

even if they are really expensive , obnoxious and everything else that entails... if they work is good I dont care how rude or pricey they are I'de go there.

 

[Stephen Frizza]

Is jo-bo processing considered a "professional" way for film to be processed by a lab? I thought its Dip and dunk or nothing for colour? black and white dip and dunk or hand processing?.... but Jo-bo? scary for so many reasons.

 

[6x9]

http://www.northcoastphoto.com/

they've never let me down, flawless professional quality work.

+1. Most of the group I am affiliated with out here in Japan uses them.

 

[nickrapak]

It's all about finding a lab who's staff and owners heart is in it for the love of film. That way the result is most of the time satisfactory.

Amen to that! When you find a lab that still considers film to be an important part of their business, and doesn't care whether you have 1 roll or 100, you can't go wrong.

I found out the most important thing to do is talk. Get into a conversation with a prospective lab. Ask about their equipment, throughput, and anything else you can think of. Regardless of the numbers they use, listen to their attitude. Are they happy to help or do they think of you as a worthless small customer? Will they do anything to make you happy, or will they just point to the waiver of liability? There are many labs. Some are good, and some are Rocky Mountain. Find the one that's the best fit for you and stick with them.