Please help for Tripod + head for Sinar F2

[WillCut]

Hello,

Just owner of a Sinar F2, and beginner in large format, I am looking for a tripod.
The Sinar has a 90mm installed. On the rail, I have the 411.21 clamp, which accepts 1/4 "threads, and has a base of 75 mm. Between the base of the clamp and the center of the ground glass I have 25cm.
The set is about 4 Kg (9lb). I also have a 6x9 back to put in place the ground glass, which should not change the weight.

As I begin, I want to discover what I like to achieve as photos with this camera: cityscapes and countryside / mountains, architecture and studio a bit (with a 250 mm?).

I am 1,73m (5'6) tall, so it can give some idea of the tripod size I need.

So I'm looking for a tripod, maybe light enough to bring it everywhere, by car or day hike (and more if affinity with it) I have a 50L backpack that I usually use for my hikes in which I could put the Sinar and hang the tripod outside (I already pass skis or snowshoes).

My max budget is about 400 $, tripod + head + plate.

I read a lot on the forums.

• What is often recommended as a head is the Sinar PanTilt. But it's difficult to find used, and it's not cheap.
• On the other hand, I often read that it is not advisable to use ball head with large formats, mostly with monorails. What do you think ?
• Do I need a big ball head or pan-tilt 2-3 axes, or is a leveling head enough?
• I think a quick fastening plate is essential. What do you think ?
• What weight should support the tripod, and the head? I think that a minimum of 8 Kg (18lb), or 10Kg (22lb), would be a minimum, to support the room + the manipulations + the insertion of films / change of back + misalignment of the room in some views. What do you think ?

In my budget, in a new tripod (sometimes with head), I have:

• Benro TravelAngel or Adventure http://www.benrousa.com/products/photo-tripods/?v6=5&v2=2&v5=2
• Sirui series ET + E20 head or series N or T http://www.sirui.eu/en/products/tripods/
  
• Berlebach Reporter series 2 or 8 (depending on the weight supported), and module 0/1/5/6, the others being too small for the base of the Sinar
• Manfrotto 055, but they seem limited to 8Kg (18lb) max load
• Others I did not think about

Can I be able to have Carbon instead of Alu for this budget (Benro and Sirui), which seems better following forums. Sirui looks better than Benro in general. The Berlebach do not seem so heavy, not more than Alu, but a bit more than Carbon. But they seem sturdy. 2.5 Kg (4.4lb) does not seem so huge. And the folded length also seems good on backpack.

Used I saw for less than 300$ a Feisol CT3441T + Giottos mh1300-621: https://bccamera.com/giottos-mh1300-621-socket-ball-head-with-quick-release-plate/ What do you think? Is the head enough for the Sinar? Would this be a good opportunity?

Thank you

 

[John Koehrer]

I'm not fond of ball heads when there's a lot of weight like a view camera. It get pretty ungainly if you try to level a camera.
Fore, aft & lateral movements are far easier with independent controls rather than loosening one bolt & having the camera wanting to do a little dance.
A three way head allows adjusting one plane at a time.
A leveling head won't allow you to adjust to tilt the camera beyond ~ 20 degrees and that may be a very inaccurate guesstimate.

 

[shutterfinger]

I have a Belrebach Report with a https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1017838-REG/sunwayfoto_dyh90i_leveling_base.html leveling base. Nice.
Most leveling bases allow 15° of tilt in any direction but some only allow 10°, check the specs of the base you consider.
I don't like quick release plates, they are a source of play.
The F2 is about 7 pounds so a 15 pound load limit should be adequate with larger capacity extra insurance.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I think a quick fastening plate is essential. What do you think ?

Yes, most definitely. But that plate must be sized appropriately to the base of the Sinar. A common problem I see are very tiny QR plates attached to LF cameras.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Manfrotto 055, but they seem limited to 8Kg (18lb) max load

What makes you think you will approach or exceed that 8kg load. In the case of Manfrotto, the loading is conservative.
And Manfrotto is what I would select ahead of Benro and Surui (some of their hollow ballheads have reportedly fractured).
A ballhead for LF should be low profile and not necessarily rotational around an axis for horizontal/vertical shooting as you have this convenience with the Sinar's inherent movements and back.

The best thing you can do is take your Sinar into a shop and have it fitted out to a suitable tripod. DO NOT rely on myriad commentary and feedback in fora because it security of the camera and ease of use is exclusive to your needs; what others think is right may be totally unsuitable or alien to you. With a camera like that I would be doing a lot of very careful research at street store level.

 

[jim10219]

I use a Bogen 3036 with a Bogen 3047 head for my F2. It's super sturdy and easy to set up and use. It is not, however, very portable, as it weighs about 15 lbs. My fiancé has a MeFoto Globetrotter which is a really nice tripod. It's probably about 5 lbs. and folds up to half the Bogen's size. It also holds about the same amount of weight and is just as steady. The issue with it, is has a ball head, which as others have mentioned, isn't ideal for large format monorails. In any case, those are the only two tripods I own that I would consider using for F2 on a regular basis.

I did take a small Promaster tripod with me once to Hawaii to use with my F2 (and other cameras). It worked pretty well even though the camera was pushing the weight limit. The trick was, I had to remove the head and just mount the F2 directly to the body of the tripod, and then rely on the camera's movements to compose and focus. When space and weight are at a premium, you have to get creative. But unfortunately, I've not found a good, steady, lightweight, compact tripod that would work with the F2. Stability comes with a price, and that price is weight.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

If you can find one in your budget, I highly recommend an Induro carbon fiber tripod. Best of many worlds - cheaper than Gitzo carbon fiber but equal in rigidity and durability. They also have the anti-rotation leg locks (this is a huge plus when trying to adjust an already extended leg on a set up tripod. If that's not in your budget, a nice used Gitzo aluminum tripod will do well.

 

[voceumana]

If you shoot in weather that is even just cool let alone cold weather, aluminum tripod legs suck the heat right out of your hands, and makes it hard to use fine motor skills as for focusing and camera movements. Wood and carbon fiber are much nicer on the hands.

I have a Ries wooden tripod with a Ries large format pan/tilt head and the setup is a joy to use --not cheap, but I never swear at it. The head is not quick release, but it is easy enough to use. If you can use the 3/8 mounting screw it makes the attachment a little less prone to rotation. But 1/4 does OK.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I have backpacked with Sinar cameras over 10,000 miles in mountain and desert terrain. Never used a tripod head. No need. The rail clamp itself is sufficient unless you point the camera straight down (I use simple L-angle mounts for that). The rail is positionable, so these are easy to balance atop a tripod. But using a ball head is just about the worst solution I can think of. Those long rails create a significant torque vector, and ball heads are likely to cause wobble. Otherwise, get a good carbon fiber tripod, the best you can afford. But forget a center column - just more wobble and instability risk.

 

[WillCut]

Hi everybody,
Thanks for your help.
Finally, I've found a Sinar Pan Tilt head. So now, I take your precious information to go hunting the tripod.
I will not take a quick release plate. I will leave the clamp on the head, fixing the rail directly on it each time. Not so complicated, and relatively easy and quick.
Ries are beautiful, but far away of my budget.
Induro: why not, I've read the following rank feisol > Induro > benro. Feisol are too expensive. Induro Carbon CLT seems at the price limit.
I keep the idea of MeFoto Globetrotter. I've already seen this company, but don't find a lot of reviews with large format camera. 5lbs is a correct weight for me.

Actually, once my head will be there, I will try some tripods in a near shop. Just to be sure of the length, the load (and may be I will be sure the Manfrotto will be enough with their 8Kg).
But, I have to confess, my favorite is the wood with the Berlebach 212 or 813. Moreover, I leave in very cold place 6 months a year.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Forgot to say, I normally use Ries wooden tripods too, but just for day use or road trips. For extended backpacking trips, the lighter weight and collapsibility of carbon fiber is a luxury hard to pass up.

 

[WillCut]

Forgot to say, I normally use Ries wooden tripods too, but just for day use or road trips. For extended backpacking trips, the lighter weight and collapsibility of carbon fiber is a luxury hard to pass up.

I am absolutely agree. It seems the best carbon tripod I can afford could be Induro or Sirui, and may be manfrotto. Even feisol is out of budget.

 

[WillCut]

Actually, my main concern is to use the more I can the sinar with my 90mm, and the 6x9 back. If after some months I consider I almost never use movements, I will go for an easier and lighter press camera. On the other hand, if I used a lot of movements but mainly in the field, I will swap sinar for a lighter Shen Hao or Chamonix.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The Sinar is faster to operate in the field. If you have a sizable enough pack, you can have it set up with a favorite lens already on it, just plop it down on the rail clamp and extend the bellows for focus. But many folding cameras excel for compactness and light wt, so I use both, depending on the nature of travel.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Roll film backs add leverage and wt to the rear standard, and can actually tug the focal plane out of sharp focus. So you have to be careful any lighter folding camera can handle it. Test with a Graflock-style back before purchasing a light field camera, and also for how close the bellows will compress. I like Horseman 6x9 backs, but use them on an Ebony, which is probably the most stable lightwt folder.

 

[jim10219]

The MeFoto Globetrotter will easily hold the F2. It's rated for 26 lbs (12 kg), and I bet it will hold a good bit more with a better head. It'll hold my F2 even with the ball head it comes with, though that's not ideal. But if you have your own head now, then that would make a very nice platform for it. My fiancé has the aluminum one. For the money, I don't think you'd find a more stable, heavy duty tripod. At least not brand new.

I used to take my F2 out into the field, and still do for architectural shots. I made a carry case for it out of a small hard-shell roller suitcase. I filled the inside with foam (the kind campers put under their sleeping bags) and cut out shapes to store my camera, extra bellows, release cable, 6 film holders, loupe, and a dark cloth. Then I lined the foam with some faux swede leather material. That allows me to carry my camera around on solid ground with relative ease (minus the tripod) and carry it on a plane and not worry about it getting damaged. For hiking, I bought a small backpack frame that holds the roller suitcase and tripod and made some straps lock it all in. It's not light, and no good if you're also carrying camping supplies, but it works well for day hikes.

Though I eventually bought a Graflex Speed Graphic for that type of stuff. I figured that way I have the Sinar for movements and the Graflex for portability. Plus, the Speed Graphic has a focal plane shutter and cost less than the Sinar shutter accessory. I also made an adapter to be able to use my Graflex lens boards with my Sinar, which makes switching between them a breeze. Between the two, I don't feel the need for a field camera.

 

[WillCut]

Whaouh, I learned so much reading how you use your camera in the field, the material you use.

I've found these used tripods for less than 300USD : Feisol CT3441T, Manfrotto 190CXPRO4, Gitzo 1349 Mk2. What do you think about? The Manfrotto supports the fewer load.
It's more expensive than a new Berlebach, my favorite.

 

[WillCut]

I've just received my Sinar Pan/tilt head. The base has a diameter of 75mm (around 3"). But on this base there is a smaller piece of diameter 55mm (around 2") receiving the screw to be fixed on the tripod (see picture)

I've tried the Sinar head on a Manfrotto 055. The smaller diameter fits on the tripod plate, but the remains part of the base goes beyond the tripod plate.
Do you know if that can be an issue to use a tripod with a smaller plate (and it seems 55mm or 60mm is a kind of standard), do I must need a plate of diameter at least 75mm to install the Sinar head?
Thanks.

 

[Dennis-B]

I've just received my Sinar Pan/tilt head. The base has a diameter of 75mm (around 3"). But on this base there is a smaller piece of diameter 55mm (around 2") receiving the screw to be fixed on the tripod (see picture)

View attachment 199455

I've tried the Sinar head on a Manfrotto 055. The smaller diameter fits on the tripod plate, but the remains part of the base goes beyond the tripod plate.
Do you know if that can be an issue to use a tripod with a smaller plate (and it seems 55mm or 60mm is a kind of standard), do I must need a plate of diameter at least 75mm to install the Sinar head?
Thanks.

I don't think you'll have any problems with a mounting base being of a larger diameter. The base has plenty of bearing surface and will sit very securely on the Manfrotto base. There should be three studs in the Manfrotto plate; align them with the triangular bases, and you should be able to snug everything down nicely. My only concern would be that the "arms" in the tripod head base won't align exactly to provide bearing surface for the studs after screwing to the 3/8" stud.

 

[norm123]

I have a Sinar F2 too. I recommand you a 3 way head to compose your pictures for studio and architecture shots. For me, a ball head is not useful with large format.

Good luck