Please Give Me Your Opinion

[Donald Miller]

I have been considering a project for a couple of years now. The project would involve traveling for most of the year. Experiencing new locations, cultures, and countries for several months at a time.

Examples of what I envision would be a several month stay in Ireland, Scotland etc, a several month stay in Greece and other locations along the Mediterranean., a several month stay in select countries in Central and South America.

This would be extended into central and south east Asia. The Islands of the South Pacific etc.

The focus of these stays would be, so much as possible, to integrate oneself into the culture and community visited. To observe and depict the life's experiences of those who live there.

One of the outgrowths of this endeavor would be a book and photographic essay that would depict a broad spectrum of unusual locations and my experiences while living there for several months at a time. My question is this, would something of this type be of interest to those who, for whatever reason, are unable to visit these places?

While this may be of interest to people of all ages, the primary audience that this would be directed toward would be those in the middle years of their lives.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

A trip like this would above all be a very exciting personal experience and would of course generate a large quantity of high-quality images. To present these and your essay as a self-published book would probably the most personally satisfying approach, at the same time it would be by far the least lucrative. Do you have experience of writing and preparing images for publication? Are you aware of possible magazines that might be interested?

To have a series of articles appear in a magazine would be great, would generate interest, and could well tip the scales in favour of getting a book published (on a commercial basis, rather than funded by you) and also making an exhibition possible. The bottom line, of course, is whether you have a financial need for ventures such as I have described in order to recoup all or part of your cost, or whether you are in a position simply to do it anyway. If the former, it would be good to think of possible outlets for your material before you set off, as this would give you a clearer idea of what you need to cover in terms of pictures and locations. Best of luck in any case!

Best wishes,

David

 

[frugal]

Just as a comment, it sounds like you're still covering quite a bit of ground in less than a year, I'd question how well you could truly integrate with the cultures in such a short period of time. I spent 7 months living in Laos and I hardly scratched the surface and that was with having received some language training at the beginning so communication wasn't the issue.

 

[Donald Miller]

David, You provided some very important considerations. Some that I had considered and some that I had not considered. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Frugal, You brought up some really valid points of consideration too..Lanuguare barriers being a major one. Thank you for your thoughts as well.

 

[pentaxuser]

Donald. I am a "depends on writing and photography vote".The problem is that there are lots of travel/photography books out there. Roger Hicks is an example of just such an author. I think that such a book might be of interest to APUGers but even if 25% of us were prepared to buy it, we're not a big enough market to make it a viable proposition even as a self publication let alone for a commercial publisher.

I suspect a lot depends on your literary style and polish. Bill Bryson has done rather well in the travel/culture scene but I think you need that kind of ability to be successful. If his books hadn't been entertaining then they wouldn't have sold no matter how good his photos were, had he had any to publish.

Oh and for anybody whose not a B&W afficionado then it has to be colour. The man in the street, even those who are interested in photos as a holiday snapper would regard B&W travel photos as almost a contradiction in terms. Rather like a B&W butterfly or bird book.

I hope you don't mind my frankness.

pentaxuser

 

[Ole]

Ten years ago, I moved the 25 km from Bergen center to Salhus. I'm beginning to feel "integrated" now.

Same language, almost walking distance (I have actually walked it), but still quite a big difference.

 

[arigram]

You mean there is a possibillity that you will come and camp over here and force me to collaborate with you while you take advantage of the locals for your own commercial gain and the amusement of middle aged americans too lazy to travel?
Sounds like a great idea! I have had similar ideas myself and hope that soon will be able to put them into action.
Tell me if I can be of assistance.

 

[blaze-on]

I think if you are doing primarily as a means to a commercial venture, then don't.

If you want to do it to experience these cultures/places to fullfill a personal goal/dream etc, cool. The other may or may not follow, and shouldn't matter.

My not so humble opinion..

 

[df cardwell]

Donald

This sort of travel is always interesting, and always valuable.

'Integration' is a relative term: being able to treat each experience with empathy is the important thing. Only an outsider is capable of doing that. Be a visitor, be from-away, and record the experience. Perfect.

In America, we would be avid travelers, but few of us ever leave home. There is always an eager market to follow your adventure.

Commercially, of course, you may be able to offset the cost of the travel. And isn't that a wonderful thing ?

all the best

don

 

[Kino]

You mean there is a possibillity that you will come and camp over here and force me to collaborate with you while you take advantage of the locals for your own commercial gain and the amusement of middle aged americans too lazy to travel?
Sounds like a great idea! I have had similar ideas myself and hope that soon will be able to put them into action.
Tell me if I can be of assistance.

Arigram,

Have you ever considered a career with the Disney Corporation?

Donald,

Sounds like you are following in the footsteps of the great, old Victorian tradition of explorers whether you realize it or not.

Quite a few of our early film collections of exploration footage, are corporate sponsored trips around the World; one man drove Harleys across Africa in the 1910's and Osa and Martin Johnson flew Sikorsky Biplanes and Drove GM trucks, etc. while filming the African Veldt in the late 20's.

The footage has been cut and recut multiple times for various lecture tours, but is a valuable document of the times.

You might find examples of touring lecturers to study; from what I understand, Frank "Bring Em Back Alive" Buck managed to make a living doing this very thing...

Just a thought...

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Donald,

Please don't take what follows too personally, but I can't see how this can work.

To begin with, unless I misread you -- which is entirely possible -- the mathematics don't add up. This is a multi-year project: several months in several countries = several x several or 'lots'. Even 6 countries at 2 months a throw is a full year and you mentioned 'Ireland, Scotland, etc.' as if it were one place, 'Greece and other places along the Mediterranean' as if they were one place, 'several months . . . in Central and South America', 'Central and South-East Asia' and 'the islands of the South Pacific etc.'

The cost is enormous. To quote an Indian friend, "Rupees are not monopoly money. Things may be a lot cheaper than at home but costs still add up."

How are your language skills? Even basic Greek, Spanish, Maltese, Gilbertese, Thai, Hindi, Tibetan, Mandarin, Japanese...?

How much 'pre-engagement', as it were, have you with your target countries? Before I ever went to Dharamsala, I knew an enormous amount about Tibet and the Tibetan question, and even then, it took two or three trips before I was fully accepted. Likewise I had Hungarian friends before I went to Hungary, Romanian friends before I went to Romania, etc.

What are the hosts getting out of it? Again, choosing Tibet-in-Exile, they got a lot of propaganda out of it, plus me working for nothing for the Administration because I believe in the cause. What commitment are you offering them?

What is the focus of the trip? What are you telling us that we don't get from National Geographic? Are you telling us as much as we get from National Geographic?

The harshest part now follows. Are you sure you are sufficiently worldly and non-judgemental to present a fair picture? Or will it appeal only to a modest number of middle-aged Americans who are interested in a substantially ethnocentic world-picture? AND who are actually interested in anything outside their own borders?

I don't know you; I don't know your photography well enough; I don't know your writing. It might be that you will produce something stunning that will earn you world-wide praise and vast sums of money. But I have done a certain amount of this kind of thing, and I've had something like 50 books published (and the more you've had published, the easier this should be) and I'd be deeply worried about affording it, let alone making money out of it.

Again, sorry for being a wet blanket, but no, I can't see how to make it work. But then, if I could, I'd have done it by now!

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Claire Senft]

Donald, if you work well at photographing people and write in an interesting manner than I fell that an interesting book could result from doing this.

Even with self publishing I do not regard it as a viable commercial venture. I would be delighted to have you prove me wrong. Breaking even on the project will, I believe, be a real challenge. If your interest is in being a photographic anthropolgist without any regard to making money I would say "go for it". If you spend 2 years doing the photography then I would guess that another two years will be spent in completing this project.

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Again, sorry for being a wet blanket, but no, I can't see how to make it work. But then, if I could, I'd have done it by now!

Cheers,

Roger

Dear Roger,
Your track record as an author is exemplary, your experience vast, but even so you are missing one thing - you are not Donald! The essence of his project is that it would be a personal odyssey, the narrative would be a description of personal discovery. I attempted to point out that it will probably cost money rather than make any, you rightly throw a spotlight on the logistics and suggest quite correctly that Donald's envisaged scope (which I do not think he has laid down in any real detail) is too vast, and that (say) four two-month stays in the course of a year might be more realistic.

I do not believe, however, that exhaustive study and comprehensive in-depth knowledge of countries prior to visiting them are essential - to be different from what has been done before, the approach would need to be a personal impression, and I am convinced that a valid personal impression can be formulated in a matter of weeks. I would in no way wish to discourage Donald - as you rightly say, earning vast sums of money is highly unlikely, even covering costs is far from certain, but we do not know if these are crucial factors for Donald. I simply feel that if he feels strongly enough about his project, he can and should do it!

Regards,

David

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

There was a good piece on travel guide writing (a different kind of project, but related) in the NYT recently--

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/07/09/fashion/sundaystyles/09TRAVEL.html

I have a few friends who do some travel writing, two who do their own photography, and I think the way to get into this sort of project would be to try a smaller project and see if you can do it. Try doing a magazine-length piece on spec, and seeing if you can sell it to, say, an in-flight magazine.

Check out Doug Cooper's travel portfolio--

http://www.dysmedia.com/Photography/Travel/PDN.html

He is a novelist first, I'd say, and a photographer second. _Photo District News_ did a nice piece on him a few years ago, but I can't seem to find the full piece on pdnonline.com. The first page of the portfolio is the first page of the article. We haven't been in touch for a while, and I don't know that he is still doing travel work, but my sense was that he was doing the travel pieces in part for the experience, and in part for the income which supported his fiction projects.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I simply feel that if he feels strongly enough about his project, he can and should do it!

Absolutely! I was merely trying to suggest that it is not merely 'not easy'; it is hellish difficult. Some of my warnings were more germane than others, without doubt, and there are matters of opinion involved, and as you say, I am not Donald.

I wish him the very best of luck, which is why I wanted to discourage dreams which might perhaps be unrealistic. I'm bang alongside his doing whatever he can afford; I just have my doubts about affordability, let alone profit.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Charles Webb]

"It would depend on the writing and photography ".

Judging from Donalds's submissions to the APUG gallery, I personally believe he should forget this idea.

He talks a great game, but the photographs he displays are far short of what he believes them to be. This is my personal opinion based on years of handling, viewing and even printing a few original negatives of the master's who we today worship. The quality of his images and subject matter are not bad in my opinion, but simply "snapshots" of things he believes he see's in his own images. These things he thinks he see's are generally not seen or observed by others when viewing his prints. I believe a "good" photograph speaks for it's self.

I ADMIT I have never held in my hand one of his original prints to evaluate or simply glance at. But I do know a powerful image when I see one. I personally don't find such images displayed in his gallery. It leaves me wanting more.

Donald, I have no desire put you or your work down, I applaud you for your efforts, but in your real photographic journey, you are still in the foot hills and a far climb from the summit where you perceive yourself to be.

A suggestion would be to try to see your subjects as they are,
not as you fantasize them to be. Trying to convert folks into "seeing" what
you think you captured can be very difficult if not impossible. Learn to spend more time in composing/making the image, than the time you spend using lip service to praise your own work and trying to convince others to become your disciples. I am sure what I have written here will not be received in the manner I intend it, but it is my opinion based on a lot of years of thought and experience!
Good luck!


I take absolutely no pleasure in expressing my feelings in this post! Charlie..................................

 

[johnnywalker]

I've spent a lot of time in some of the areas you mentioned (never been to Europe, except for a few days in England), and agree with the others who said that's too many places in too short a time. If I were in your shoes I'd pick a country that is not a recognized tourist destination. Right now, Vietnam would be my choice. Tomorrow it could be a different place! If I could afford it I would hire a local guide / interpreter. If I got bored with Vietnam (not likely) I'd move on to a part of China, Laos or Cambodia.
I've never been anywhere where the best places are not off the beaten track, where the real people are.
I wish I could afford what you are planning. Best of luck with it.

 

[Donald Miller]

Thanks to all of have responded. As I mentioned at the outset, this is an idea that has remained with me for several years. It happens that I now have the means to financially afford to do this without any thought of making any money out of it. I think that I do have the ability to do this, if I do decide to proceed. I agree that the personal narrative is an important factor to bring to the project.

I am not sure that I will do this yet, much more ground work needs to be done.

Thanks for your input and thoughts.

 

[roteague]

I wish you the best, with whatever you decide to do, I wish I could do the same. I've given a lot of thought to doing something similar and I admire that you are willing to attempt it. Go for it!!

 

[JBrunner]

Do one... do one country, and you will know more about your idea than all the suppositions in the world. One won't break anything, and you will have a glorious adventure, and you will also be able to see much farther, and decide to continue or not.

Me personally, I would rather spend a year in one place, and focus on one culture, one journey, but then I have little idea of what your project will be about.

 

[roteague]

Do one... do one country, and you will know more about your idea than all the suppositions in the world. One won't break anything, and you will have a glorious adventure, and you will also be able to see much farther, and decide to continue or not.

Unfortunately, due to visa requirements, it is sometimes easier to do multiple countries over a long period than a single country.

 

[timbo10ca]

Dear Roger,
Your track record as an author is exemplary, your experience vast, but even so you are missing one thing - you are not Donald! The essence of his project is that it would be a personal odyssey, the narrative would be a description of personal discovery. I attempted to point out that it will probably cost money rather than make any, you rightly throw a spotlight on the logistics and suggest quite correctly that Donald's envisaged scope (which I do not think he has laid down in any real detail) is too vast, and that (say) four two-month stays in the course of a year might be more realistic.

I do not believe, however, that exhaustive study and comprehensive in-depth knowledge of countries prior to visiting them are essential - to be different from what has been done before, the approach would need to be a personal impression, and I am convinced that a valid personal impression can be formulated in a matter of weeks. I would in no way wish to discourage Donald - as you rightly say, earning vast sums of money is highly unlikely, even covering costs is far from certain, but we do not know if these are crucial factors for Donald. I simply feel that if he feels strongly enough about his project, he can and should do it!

Regards,

David

I have to agree. This is an endevour that we all dream of, and no, it's one we'll likely never make money off of. Going into a culture virgin can add a *very* attractive point of view, giving insight that many would appreciate. If the point is self- satisfaction and discovery, then I say do it with my envy and blessing for success. If you regain your costs then your're already ahead of the game. I think the area you are considering in the time allotted is ambitious, so you may want to narrow it down, but I don't know your scedule flexibility. I would never poo-poo a dream like this, because I would one day like to do something similar (realizing my level of photography will never be praised). Do yourself a favour and ignore everything stated on this post, watch Long Way Round (Ewan Macgregor and Charlie Boran [name??] ride motorcylcles around the world- the best thing I've ever seen on T.V.- truly amazing), and do it- you'll surpise us all.

 

[StephenS]

My advise is to absolutely not not do it. Don't listen to anyone who says otherwise.

So what if there's a 99% chance it will end in failure? Nothing's ever easy. Worse thing that can happen is you die. And since that's going to happen anyway, why worry? Money can always be re-earned, so forget about that too.

That said, I'd think out your idea. (Actually, you really have no idea yet from what you've described. That's not meant as a put-down.) Around the world trips aren't anything too special and unless the person doing it has some wild skills and wild images, few people will care enough to even consider a book. And a year is a very short time. A month somewhere is time enough to get comfortable getting around - forget understanding a culture.

I'd say forget going because of a book. Go because you can. Who knows, maybe it will turn into an adventure people will want to hear about. But if you try for that, it probably won't work out that way.

Personally, I could care less about travel to see stuff. Never cared about it. But what I do love is meeting people who live in incredible places or under incredible circumstances. Figure out what you're into and then do it because it's what you're into, not because you think other people will care (unless you're dying for attention than what other people think is all that matters).

Follow your bliss and keep it honest.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Go because you can.

Yes!

If anything else comes out of it, great. But don't plan on it.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[catem]

From my position of absolute inexperience in this sort of venture, I'd say yes, follow your heart. Possibly with your eyes wide open, but then you have to have space for dreaming, and the nature of that is sometimes not quite opening your eyes and a willingness to accept the unknown.

If you don't do it you'll probably always wish you had.

just my 2p

Cate