Pleasantly surprised

[Blighty]

I read somewhere that Ilford MG Dev can be diluted at 1:14 for (in their words) greater economy. So being curious and a tightwad, I thought I'd try it out with some Ilford MG warm FB. When I've tried higher dilution devs in the past I've noticed slightly less Dmax and some warming of the image, at least with Forte warmtone, and I was expecting a similar effect with the Ilford paper. Anyway, after purposely printing a low-key image, I can't see much difference between prints devved at dilution of 1:9 or 1:14, certainly not in terms of Dmax, although I can't swear on this, especially as I don't have access to technical equipment. Anyone else noticed this?

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Diluted developer does not affect highlights and midtones, only the shadows.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The total capacity of a tray of this dilute developer will be less as will the open tray lifetime of the developer. Will it stand up as well to a full printing session?

So, there are tradeoffs. Are they worth it? IDK. You are the only judge.

PE

 

[Blighty]

Diluted developer does not affect highlights and midtones, only the shadows.

That was my point, Ralph. Dilute development didn't seem to affect shadow density; that was until I made another print today. There is a very slight (and I mean very slight) reduction in Dmax, so I was somewhat previous in my initial assessment. Still, thanks both of you for your response. B

 

[RalphLambrecht]

That was my point, Ralph. Dilute development didn't seem to affect shadow density; that was until I made another print today. There is a very slight (and I mean very slight) reduction in Dmax, so I was somewhat previous in my initial assessment. Still, thanks both of you for your response. B

My measurements with Dektol show a more significant loss in Dmax. See attached.

 

[Photo Engineer]

What Ralph shows is a typical exhaustion problem in areas with lots of silver development. This is essentially developer exhaustion expressed in sensitometric curves..

PE

 

[fschifano]

But what happens when you increase the development time to compensate? Would nnot the curves tend to even out?

 

[Ian Grant]

But what happens when you increase the development time to compensate? Would nnot the curves tend to even out?

Not quite.

The principle of increased dilution and extended development times as well as increased exposure is used with warm tone papers to increase warmth. It's not done to the same extremes as a few years ago because papers have changed.

Increased dilution gives finer grain which affects image colour in papers, this translates to a reduced Dmax. This works bets with warmtone papers - Chloro-bromide/Bromo-chloride), but just leads to muddy prints with bromide papers.

Ian

 

[RalphLambrecht]

But what happens when you increase the development time to compensate? Would nnot the curves tend to even out?

Yes, within reason. See attached.

 

[fschifano]

Yes, within reason. See attached.

I see and that's about what I'd expect to see. I've known, and seen the warming trend that presents itself with some papers when using more dilute developers, and have commented on that in several posts in these fora. I notice it most with Arista.EDU Ultra papers (Foma something) sourced from Freestyle.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, notwithstanding what Ralph has posted, which is all correct, don't forget that the capacity and keeping of the dilute developer is much lower as I noted earlier here. I'm sure that Ralph used fresh developer for his tests.

PE

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Well, notwithstanding what Ralph has posted, which is all correct, don't forget that the capacity and keeping of the dilute developer is much lower as I noted earlier here. I'm sure that Ralph used fresh developer for his tests.

PE

PE is correct. I used fresh developer for these tests (even that I question that practice sometimes). In addition, I conducted two more tests, one for developer aging (still fresh developer) and one to compare the difference between fresh and exhausted developer, and how much factorial development can compensate for it.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Again, Ralph has shown an important set of data! Don't ignore it.

The first figure could represent an evenings work instead of several days keeping. The dilute developer might give you that series over a set of a dozen prints or so. The right figure might represent extremes in keeping as well as the actual data it shows. Dilution or over dilution can present the DR enthusiast with a real gotcha!

Thanks Ralph.

Pe

 

[RalphLambrecht]

... The first figure could represent an evenings work instead of several days keeping. The dilute developer might give you that series over a set of a dozen prints or so. The right figure might represent extremes in keeping as well as the actual data it shows. Dilution or over dilution can present the DR enthusiast with a real gotcha! ...

Good point!