• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Pleasantly surprised

Blighty

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
914
Location
Lancaster, N
Format
Multi Format
I read somewhere that Ilford MG Dev can be diluted at 1:14 for (in their words) greater economy. So being curious and a tightwad, I thought I'd try it out with some Ilford MG warm FB. When I've tried higher dilution devs in the past I've noticed slightly less Dmax and some warming of the image, at least with Forte warmtone, and I was expecting a similar effect with the Ilford paper. Anyway, after purposely printing a low-key image, I can't see much difference between prints devved at dilution of 1:9 or 1:14, certainly not in terms of Dmax, although I can't swear on this, especially as I don't have access to technical equipment. Anyone else noticed this?
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
The total capacity of a tray of this dilute developer will be less as will the open tray lifetime of the developer. Will it stand up as well to a full printing session?

So, there are tradeoffs. Are they worth it? IDK. You are the only judge.

PE
 
OP
OP

Blighty

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
914
Location
Lancaster, N
Format
Multi Format
RalphLambrecht said:
Diluted developer does not affect highlights and midtones, only the shadows.
Click to expand...
That was my point, Ralph. Dilute development didn't seem to affect shadow density; that was until I made another print today. There is a very slight (and I mean very slight) reduction in Dmax, so I was somewhat previous in my initial assessment. Still, thanks both of you for your response. B
 

RalphLambrecht

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
14,962
Location
K,Germany
Format
Medium Format

My measurements with Dektol show a more significant loss in Dmax. See attached.
 

Attachments

  • DeveloperDilution.jpg
    25.3 KB · Views: 97

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
What Ralph shows is a typical exhaustion problem in areas with lots of silver development. This is essentially developer exhaustion expressed in sensitometric curves..

PE
 

fschifano

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
May 12, 2003
Messages
3,196
Location
Valley Strea
Format
Multi Format
But what happens when you increase the development time to compensate? Would nnot the curves tend to even out?
 

Ian Grant

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Messages
23,419
Location
West Midland
Format
Multi Format
fschifano said:
But what happens when you increase the development time to compensate? Would nnot the curves tend to even out?
Click to expand...

Not quite.

The principle of increased dilution and extended development times as well as increased exposure is used with warm tone papers to increase warmth. It's not done to the same extremes as a few years ago because papers have changed.

Increased dilution gives finer grain which affects image colour in papers, this translates to a reduced Dmax. This works bets with warmtone papers - Chloro-bromide/Bromo-chloride), but just leads to muddy prints with bromide papers.

Ian
 

fschifano

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
May 12, 2003
Messages
3,196
Location
Valley Strea
Format
Multi Format
RalphLambrecht said:
Yes, within reason. See attached.
Click to expand...

I see and that's about what I'd expect to see. I've known, and seen the warming trend that presents itself with some papers when using more dilute developers, and have commented on that in several posts in these fora. I notice it most with Arista.EDU Ultra papers (Foma something) sourced from Freestyle.
 

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
Well, notwithstanding what Ralph has posted, which is all correct, don't forget that the capacity and keeping of the dilute developer is much lower as I noted earlier here. I'm sure that Ralph used fresh developer for his tests.

PE
 

RalphLambrecht

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
14,962
Location
K,Germany
Format
Medium Format
Photo Engineer said:
Well, notwithstanding what Ralph has posted, which is all correct, don't forget that the capacity and keeping of the dilute developer is much lower as I noted earlier here. I'm sure that Ralph used fresh developer for his tests.

PE
Click to expand...

PE is correct. I used fresh developer for these tests (even that I question that practice sometimes). In addition, I conducted two more tests, one for developer aging (still fresh developer) and one to compare the difference between fresh and exhausted developer, and how much factorial development can compensate for it.
 

Attachments

  • DeveloperAging.jpg
    27.3 KB · Views: 99
  • DeveloperExhaustion.jpg
    40.7 KB · Views: 96

Photo Engineer

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
29,018
Location
Rochester, NY
Format
Multi Format
Again, Ralph has shown an important set of data! Don't ignore it.

The first figure could represent an evenings work instead of several days keeping. The dilute developer might give you that series over a set of a dozen prints or so. The right figure might represent extremes in keeping as well as the actual data it shows. Dilution or over dilution can present the DR enthusiast with a real gotcha!

Thanks Ralph.

Pe
 

RalphLambrecht

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
14,962
Location
K,Germany
Format
Medium Format

Good point!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register