Playing Around With Flic Film Black/White & Green and Gainer's PC-TEA developers

[John Wiegerink]

In that case the only solution is to make a water based concentrate.
Some people say Phenidone keeps well enough in a slightly acidic solution along with some sulfite but Fenton reaction would quickly kill the ascorbate.
You would need distilled water and cleating agents like DPTA5Na or EDTA2Na.
A possible formula would be:

FX-55.CW (Concentrate-Water based)

Solution A
Potassium Carbonate 8g
Sodium Bicarbonate 0.6g
Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous) 10g
Water to 100mL

Solution B
Cleating agents (DPTA5Na/EDTA2Na) 1g -----Always add this first
Phenidone 0.4g
Ascorbate 5.2g
Sodium Bisulfite 4.8g
Water to 100mL

Thanks for possible formula. I guess my real interest was the "work-around" due to Sodium Ascorbate not wanting to dissolve into glycol.
Now, back to PC-TEA!

 

[pentaxuser]

When I mix up Pyrocat-HD, I always dissolve the required amount of Phenidone in a bit of Isopropyl Alcohol, before adding it. Goes in easily. Heat up the TEA to say about 50C, and give it a whirl.

I had a feeling I had once seen John Finch dealing with PC-TEA so I searched his videos again and found the one that covers it. In it he uses propylene glycol instead of isopropyl alcohol in which to dissolve the phenidone giving it a keeping property that can be measured in years. He then heats it very gently for 2 x10 secs in a microwave to preserve all the properties of the phenidone, his test being whether he can easily hold the beaker in his bare hand while stirring. He applies the same test to his ascorbic acid in TEA except that his time he uses 1x20 secs plus 1 x10 and again while the beaker is slightly warmer than was applied to phenidone it is still hand-holdable He then allows the TEA to cool before adding the phenidone in glycol to ensure that phenidone's properties cannot be adversely affected

He does say if the temperature of either is 60c but I suspect it may even be less and certainly no more than 60c

So this may be an alternative way and might accord exactly with your quote above, Andy

Anyway should anyone be interested in this video here it is. The bits about what I describe above is from 3:30 to 8;15 in terms of the phenidone and about 10:30 to 14:00 in the case of ascorbic acid

I hope this helps anyone here interested



pentaxuser

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I had a feeling I had once seen John Finch dealing with PC-TEA so I searched his videos again and found the one that covers it. In it he uses propylene glycol instead of isopropyl alcohol in which to dissolve the phenidone giving it a keeping property that can be measured in years. He then heats it very gently for 2 x10 secs in a microwave to preserve all the properties of the phenidone, his test being whether he can easily hold the beaker in his bare hand while stirring. He applies the same test to his ascorbic acid in TEA except that his time he uses 1x20 secs plus 1 x10 and again while the beaker is slightly warmer than was applied to phenidone it is still hand-holdable He then allows the TEA to cool before adding the phenidone in glycol to ensure that phenidone's properties cannot be adversely affected

He does say if the temperature of either is 60c but I suspect it may even be less and certainly no more than 60c

So this may be an alternative way and might accord exactly with your quote above, Andy

Anyway should anyone be interested in this video here it is. The bits about what I describe above is from 3:30 to 8;15 in terms of the phenidone and about 10:30 to 14:00 in the case of ascorbic acid

I hope this helps anyone here interested



pentaxuser

Thank you for posting!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Those who watch the mini player as it appears on Photrio do not see the comments posted on YouTube's website. Might be a good idea to repeat any information the viewer needs to know wherever the video can be viewed?

No offence intended, but personally, I would much prefer to read a text summary, and skip the YouTube video, altogether. When reading text, I can quickly skim over the information I already know -- and I can stop and re-read anything I don't understand. Or I can copy and paste something I want to know more about into a search engine. Whether the information is simple or complex, relevant or off-topic, video presents all information at the same rate. And if the pace is too fast, or too slow, too bad. There are some processes which are best shown on video, but for everything else, text just works better for me.

Actually, I just realised that there is a transcript button in the description. You click on it and presto! Transcript! If you click on any of the lines in the transcript, it'll go to that part of the video.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Actually, I just realised that there is a transcript button in the description. You click on it and presto! Transcript! If you click on any of the lines in the transcript, it'll go to that part of the video.

Even us old timers who know everything learn something new every now and again. Thanks, Andy!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Even us old timers who know everything learn something new every now and again. Thanks, Andy!

I only discovered it while watching a Japanese youtuber's video. I had no idea it's in the description all along!

 

[john_s]

I had a feeling I had once seen John Finch dealing with PC-TEA so I searched his videos again and found the one that covers it. In it he uses propylene glycol instead of isopropyl alcohol in which to dissolve the phenidone giving it a keeping property that can be measured in years. He then heats it very gently for 2 x10 secs in a microwave to preserve all the properties of the phenidone, his test being whether he can easily hold the beaker in his bare hand while stirring. He applies the same test to his ascorbic acid in TEA except that his time he uses 1x20 secs plus 1 x10 and again while the beaker is slightly warmer than was applied to phenidone it is still hand-holdable He then allows the TEA to cool before adding the phenidone in glycol to ensure that phenidone's properties cannot be adversely affected

He does say if the temperature of either is 60c but I suspect it may even be less and certainly no more than 60c

So this may be an alternative way and might accord exactly with your quote above, Andy

Anyway should anyone be interested in this video here it is. The bits about what I describe above is from 3:30 to 8;15 in terms of the phenidone and about 10:30 to 14:00 in the case of ascorbic acid

I hope this helps anyone here interested



pentaxuser

That seems sensible. I've avoided what I imagine might be excessive temperatures to get developing agents to dissolve. The first and only time I made 510-Pyro I didn't heat it, but kept it in the boot (=trunk) of the car for a few days to help it dissolve which it did. (I drive a lot). However, the developer did not deliver anything like usable speed so I tossed it. In retrospect, given other people's success, I wonder if cooking it actually improves it.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Actually, I just realised that there is a transcript button in the description. You click on it and presto! Transcript! If you click on any of the lines in the transcript, it'll go to that part of the video.

Did you read the transcript? Here is a snippet:
---
...don't really want to walk
on the sand here leave my footprints be
very careful where I go probably want to
also take some pictures under the fridge
over
there that's unlucky soon as I started
photographing some people walk through
big rubber boots on so much for my
pristine
Beach rain going
overhead handh holding the RB is a
little bit tricky usually I have this on
a tripod there I've slapped on a yellow
Soldier so I had to give a stop more
exposure oh look smokers that's a lot of
work lugging this around squatting
standing up squatting standing
up changing the back taking a picture
changing the back again taking another
picture I'm exhausted I'm going to go
home make myself a cup of tea I'm hungry...
---
The YouTube description says the transcript is "auto generated" whatever that means. Kind of funny, really. Reminds me of a 1960s stream-of-consciousness poem written by one of the stoned poets of my generation. Not because of what you said, but because of what the transcription software did to it. Apparently, YouTube's machine learning 'bots skipped class on the day they were supposed to learn about punctuation.

The transcript stops at the 8 minute point in your 10.5 minute video. But only in the last 2.5 minutes did the video get to the part I was interested in, comparing results from the two developers. For that part of your video, you switched from live video to a slide show consisting of still photographs with text captions and background music. It seems to me like those ingredients, without the video and background music, could have worked quite well as a simple web document. If the stills and captions were presented as a concise web document, I could probably get the full benefit from your test results in about a minute.

 

[koraks]

The transcript stops at the 8 minute point in your 10.5 minute video.

Probably because there's no spoken word beyond that point.
What text there is Andy has put in as actual written text.

I can relate to your argument and I generally also prefer written text + illustrations for ease of information gathering, but I have to say that especially in Andy's videos, 'asynchronous' consumption is fairly easy. The format is quite consistent, it's easy to skip ahead to the comparison part which he always puts at the end, and his key observations are pretty much always in the form of on-screen text. The whole thing is helped by YT's ability to easily skim through videos using the small preview and its fairly successful auto-captioning that does an OK job on most videos I come across.

Fact of the matter remains that some people prefer (to make, or watch) video while others prefer text. I'm in the latter camp, and be that as it may, I'll gladly accept that others don't agree with me. I've seen Andy mention several times that making videos comes easier to him and that's just a fact of life that I can't argue with!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Some people are just impossible to please

 

[runswithsizzers]

Some people are just impossible to please

Of course, you must please yourself first; every artist must. Except for those YouTube professionals who depend on likes and ad revenue to support their families, and must do whatever it takes to keep their followers clicking. I suppose that is no different from the compromises we all must make to earn our bread. Only the amateurs among us can afford to do whatever they want, and ignore what others think about their work. I hope you enjoy the luxury of being among the amateurs! And I mean that sincerely, without irony!

Actually, I was pleased to read the transcript of your YouTube video. It was very amusing! And it allowed me see some differences and connections between spoken language and written language that I had not noticed before. I now have a higher appreciation for punctuation. The entire spectrum of language from precisely written text to spoken dialects and obscure slang at the very edge of communication are all interesting to me.

It is also interesting to watch our AI babies as they grow up. YouTube's transcription 'bots have developed past the "goo-goo, gah-gah" phase, but cannot yet understand human language like fifth-graders, much less adults.

So, please forgive my unsolicited feedback, no offence intended. And keep doing what you enjoy most! Even if there are a few swine who turn up our snouts at your pearls.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Of course, you must please yourself first; every artist must. Except for those YouTube professionals who depend on likes and ad revenue to support their families, and must do whatever it takes to keep their followers clicking. I suppose that is no different from the compromises we all must make to earn our bread. Only the amateurs among us can afford to do whatever they want, and ignore what others think about their work. I hope you enjoy the luxury of being among the amateurs! And I mean that sincerely, without irony!

Actually, I was pleased to read the transcript of your YouTube video. It was very amusing! And it allowed me see some differences and connections between spoken language and written language that I had not noticed before. I now have a higher appreciation for punctuation. The entire spectrum of language from precisely written text to spoken dialects and obscure slang at the very edge of communication are all interesting to me.

It is also interesting to watch our AI babies as they grow up. YouTube's transcription 'bots have developed past the "goo-goo, gah-gah" phase, but cannot yet understand human language like fifth-graders, much less adults.

So, please forgive my unsolicited feedback, no offence intended. And keep doing what you enjoy most! Even if there are a few swine who turn up our snouts at your pearls.

Well, I'm certainly no YouTube professional. I make no money from it. It's a labour of love. I'm also not a professional photographer. I would never want to be. I have exhibited in group shows as well as several solo shows, and made a bit of money from sales. Even been published a few times, too (all volunteer). It's certainly not my livelihood. I'm an art teacher. Photography has been a very enjoyable hobby. I find it a lot more challenging than drawing and painting.

 

[pentaxuser]

Well, I'm certainly no YouTube professional. I make no money from it. It's a labour of love. .

What counts is that your videos are both chatty and easy to understand - not an combo that is achieved often What you do and conclude is what you demonstrate on screen. I am not sure what else anyone can ask for in a video

pentaxuser

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

What counts is that your videos are both chatty and easy to understand - not an combo that is achieved often What you do and conclude is what you demonstrate on screen. I am not sure what else anyone can ask for in a video

pentaxuser

Thanks, pentaxuser. I really do appreciate it!

 

[JWMster]

Andy: I posted a query on the youtube before realizing you had posted here as well. On the chance you look here more often, my question regards comparing grain in PC-TEA to PC-512... which my eye sees one way but may not be a big deal ...as sometimes grain can prove a product of scanning. FWIW, some scans of the SAME film, SAME developer, etc. off the SAME roll have been known to show different levels (appearances) of grain. Not sure I understand that yet.... just discovering how it annoys me is a start.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Andy: I posted a query on the youtube before realizing you had posted here as well. On the chance you look here more often, my question regards comparing grain in PC-TEA to PC-512... which my eye sees one way but may not be a big deal ...as sometimes grain can prove a product of scanning. FWIW, some scans of the SAME film, SAME developer, etc. off the SAME roll have been known to show different levels (appearances) of grain. Not sure I understand that yet.... just discovering how it annoys me is a start.

I get notifications as soon as someone posts on my youtube channel. In fact, I just replied to your comment over there! Thanks for taking the time!

 

[JWMster]

Andy: Thanks! Saw this in a quick look: PC-TEA on Pierre Killmayer's blog. Seems to have very smooth tonality in the selected photos. In reviewing Steve Schaub's scanning approach, I reset and rescanned a photo to remove a lot of grain.... just by simplifying the process in his way. Not a lot of work if you're using the Silverfast 9.2.2 with an Epson 850. Kind of illuminating to see a LOT of GRAIN could be pulled out of the smooth / textureless areas where it can clump up. Doing this pushed the photo from being an outlier to looking more like the better ones.... so I'm kind of pumped about that.

 

[loccdor]

As to BW&G, I admit that I belong to that impatient class of photographers who hates working with “the goo” that is the BW&G syrup. My darkroom stays pretty cold, particularly in winter, adding an extra step whereby I have to heat up the bottle just to be able to extract the syrup. As a result, I developed a couple of rolls and then moved back to less viscous/easier to manipulate developers.

I just did a Black/White & Green development tonight. My house has been around 20C, and in the developer bottle was 90% rock-like solid, 10% liquid floating on top. I haven't had that happen with any of the other developers. I warmed it up for 15 minutes which gave me about 30% liquid. The solidification didn't have any negative effect on the development. Seems like something that could be solvable with a tweak to the formulation.