Pictures and photopolymerization?

[analog what is that?]

I did once cut out an article from Scientific American on this subject, acrilics, amides and TEA, and was wiondering if anyone had done serous work with this?

Looking for links, data and recipes...... and ideas.

 

[holmburgers]

Holography is the place to look, and I guess the dichromate processes as well.. they kinda fit this(?).

Some members here are well versed in holography, and I know they're working on this very thing.

For starters -> http://www.polygrama.com/

 

[analog what is that?]

No this wasn't what I was after.

I still have that article from Scientific American (30+ yrs old!).
The process works with an ordinary enlarger, it uses a mix of photochemical plastics which can be used like photo sensitive film on ceramics, paper or glass to make semitranslucent 3-d images.

Uses acrylate monomers sentized by small amounts of TEA and various color dyes and yealds images within second no lasers necessary.

I was wondering wether anyone had done work with this......

 

[Hexavalent]

This process sounds vaguely familiar.
Could you share the article date, author, title?
I have a collection of Sci Ams covering mid-60's through early 90's (always a good read!)

 

[holmburgers]

Wow, I have no idea then. It sounds pretty darn interesting; if you find something be sure to share it.

Cheers,

 

[DREW WILEY]

There are all kinds of esoteric things out there in this general arena is you start looking into patent
files. But you need to go beyond photography literature per se. There are a surprising number of things in medical science which are related. I've never had the time to pursue any of this very far,
but have always thought that there would be a way to adopt ideas from one field and place them
into another. Quit thinking about it much when it became clear that a number of ideas involve very
hazardous chemicals.

 

[analog what is that?]

I have the cutouts from the magazine, it is pretyy cvlear, I can scan it, but dunno where to put a PDF-file easy and to the best effect.

 

[keithwms]

Is this related?

http://www.benthamscience.com/mats/samples/mats 1-1/Asit B. Samui.pdf

 

[analog what is that?]

Is this related?

http://www.benthamscience.com/mats/samples/mats 1-1/Asit B. Samui.pdf

Yeeees..... and no.
This is like having a discussion with a professor in architecture, when all you want is to put up a little shed.....

The article I'm talking of was published around 1981, I don't have the eact date any more, it had a more or less exact recipe on how to do this in practice instead of a wide-scope theoretical run-through of all the possible patents out there with no clues on how to start things in practice.

I better scan this as it seems to have slipped under the radar of everyone. Myself I have a hard time setting tis up, because it seem TEA is on some kind of restricted list over here, cant get it for developers either....

 

[holmburgers]

Please do post it here if you find it, or start a fresh thread and link to it here. APUG is all about compiling resources that otherwise might be too disparate to be of any good to anyone.

Cheers!

 

[analog what is that?]

That was my intent all along I would never bring anything to the table here, unkless I wanted to share.

But it was also a subdued cry for help, where to best put pdf-files for maximum effect, AFAIK such files will not UL automagically here....

 

[holmburgers]

You have to go to advanced reply and attach with the paperclip. I think that'll do the trick.

 

[analog what is that?]

Thank you mate! One
learns something every day by sharing as much as possible on the Net!n Jupp there it is pdf-file limit is 927,7 MB, I think that will be more than enough.
Firing up scanner, this will be a relief in other threads as well!

 

[analog what is that?]

This will not happen here. The data will not be forthcoming, since I discovered in another thread that the mere mention of a scanner, and other digital means of diplaying one's work here fired off threats of being dispelled to "dpug" whatever that is, and postings being censored/deleted.

Since I cannot do this with anything else than a scanner, it will not happen. There. SCANNER. Delete this.

 

[Hexavalent]

Referring to the OP, it appears that it might be a December 1969 "Amateur Scientist" column in Sci. Am. - "Calcium acrylate monomer ...add two drops of triethanolamine and two drops of methylene blue etc".

If I can find this item in my collection (boxes upon boxes of mags hiding in the garage), I will make it available.

 

[holmburgers]

analog what is that?, don't be silly. Scanning documents is common practice and posting that is completely fine.

It's just when you start talking about scanning film that people freak out. It's silly, it's pedantic, it's the way APUG is. We gotta live with it I guess. You learn quickly how much you can get away with, but merely mentioning it in a broader context won't get you in any trouble usually.

It sounds like you're frustrated about the scanning issue, but to not share something related to analog photography because it's been scanned is completely counter productive to the original aims of APUG. Trust me, no one will raise a stink.

Or you could just tell everyone you faxed it to yourself...

 

[keithwms]

LOL if we're not allowed to scan docs and post them then I guess we're not allowed to access APUG with our computers too I mean, last time I checked, my monitor was a digital device. Maybe I should read this on a cathode ray tube. :munch:

Just post the doc or better yet upload it somewhere and post a link to it.

APUG is a lot more moderate and open than many realize. Please don't be put off by people's reluctance to discuss scanners themselves and whatnot. This is actually a friendly place. It;s just that some people amuse themselves by picking certain tired battles over and over. And over. No worries.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

APUG is a lot more moderate and open than many realize.

WOW - When did that change? When Hybridphoto.com flopped?

 

[keithwms]

WOW - When did that change? When Hybridphoto.com flopped?

Hehe

Well, there sometimes is a difference between the perceived tone and the actual "rules" of the site. Yes, we don't have open "What scanner should I buy" threads, and "D vs. A" threads are frowned upon, but... that's about it. Items are routinely scanned into the threads and galleries. And I think anyone discussing and advocating analogue materials and processes will find APUG quite welcoming.

Every now and then, somebody feels the need to push someone else's buttons in the most obvious way, and we rehash the same thing. Truth is, the vast majority understand very well why we're here. Because we enjoy analogue photography.

 

[DWThomas]

(Rambling thoughts)
As I read this, I recall decades back producing printed circuit boards using a photo-sensitive resist (from Kodak, in fact) and I assume photo polymerization was the basis of that. It wasn't particularly analog, lithograph films and line art were used as image masters. The film was contact printed with UV light on a substrate coated with the photo-resist. The substrate was then washed in solvent, leaving the pattern on the substrate, after which acids were used to etch the piece. Photo resists are still in use, especially in the semiconductor industry (where I believe they use Xrays as the shorter wavelengths allow higher resolution).

The idea of something homegrown sounds interesting, especially if there was a way to somehow introduce a porosity proportional to exposure that could produce a more analog result.

DaveT

 

[MDR]

Meanwhile some links that might interest someone on polymerization and reaction to light

Photopolymerization under visible light
Dead Link Removed

Imaging on a Vapor Deposited Film by Photopolymerization of a Rod-Like
Molecule Consisting of Two Diacetylenic Groups
http://www.cheric.org/PDF/MMR/MR10/MR10-4-0204.pdf

Dye Sensitized photopolymerisation (on Google Docs)

Dominik

 

[keithwms]

I have done quite a bit of photopolymerization (of C60) but nothing in this photographic context. Interesting stuff.

The idea of something homegrown sounds interesting, especially if there was a way to somehow introduce a porosity proportional to exposure that could produce a more analog result.

DaveT

Hmm. Well what about deliberately using something that makes short chains and such. E.g. it could be that the monomer is deliberately not monodisperse.... or you use a molecule with a lot of orientational disorder that doesn't always polymerize. Then the polymerization is sort of statistical and inherently imperfect and I guess you will indeed get pores and areas that are more or less polymerized. C60 does this on mica or silicon, if I remember correctly. You get short range, mostly 2D crosslinks and then those are insoluble in toluene.

 

[Ole]

Does anyone remember newspapers? The old paper kind, in the age before computerised layout and direct output.

That's how they were printed, and how photographs were prepared for printing (through a half-tone raster screen).

And since noone does it that way now, there are thousands of top class repro lenses being snapped up by the LF community for next to nothing.

 

[analog what is that?]

Fail to see the connection with OP, but do you have a link to those top class lenses for "next to nothing" I'm looking for a good outfit for my Plaubel Makiflex......
(and I'm pondering upon how to get this photopolymer stuff onto glass plates, to utilize this as photo plates in the 4x5 glass negative carrier in said camera..................... ISO 1 - 8 maybe?)

 

[keithwms]

Spin coating will give very controllable thickness. But I kinda doubt that you really want to expose this in camera. I think you'll want to try it under an enlarger first. The exposures may be unreasonable for in-camera work. At least the photopoly I have played with needs quite a lot of UV to induce the crosslinking. Normal light coming through your lens probably won't work well. Unless you have some really clever catalyst.