Photos of rocks etc. Where's the art?

Eric Rose · Feb 23, 2006

There have been some great photos published by a name photographersthat is essentially an arrangement of rocks. The photographer made the arrangement and then photographed it.

So where is the art? The rock arrangement or the recording of the rock arrangement via photography?

Just one of the many things I ponder in the shower LOL.

Anupam Basu · Feb 23, 2006

Why do you need to figure out exactly 'where' the 'art' is? Such boundaries only exist within what Wittgenstein calls language games - they are not absolute - once you realize that such questions will cease and you will be able to shower in peace.

JBrunner · Feb 23, 2006

Anupam Basu said:
Why do you need to figure out exactly 'where' the 'art' is? Such boundaries only exist within what Wittgenstein calls language games - they are not absolute - once you realize that such questions will cease and you will be able to shower in peace.

Yes, but that begs the next question: How big is a rock?

And: Does it have to be a rock?

jimcollum · Feb 23, 2006

that would probably be Andy Goldsworthy. http://www.sculpture.org.uk/artists/AndyGoldsworthy

For the most part, the photos that he takes of his work end up being the only thing remaining.. most of what he creates is very transitory.

I'm a big fan of rock photography.. most of what i shoot is found , rather than arranged

Peter Schrager · Feb 23, 2006

Caponigro

Paul Caponigro also did a complete set of arranged rocks. Very Zen-like...
Peter

MurrayMinchin · Feb 23, 2006

The art is in having the idea. The art is in executing the idea. The art is in convincing collectors that your work is collectable.

What's next fer gawds sake, peppers?

Murray

jimcollum · Feb 23, 2006

MurrayMinchin said:
The art is in convincing collectors that your work is collectable.

Murray

There we go.. a definition that is accurate in describing a major trait of a *successful* artist.

(ok.. in this case successful means not having to work at the local camera store to support the image making fix)

Leon · Feb 23, 2006

Peter Schrager said:
Paul Caponigro also did a complete set of arranged rocks. Very Zen-like...
Peter

Didnt he do a series on Megaliths? Slightly different to arranged rocks - that's like calling the Vatican a pile of bricks!

(I'm probably showing my ignorance here and Mr Caponigro also did some arranged still life shots ...)

André E.C. · Feb 23, 2006

I see the image, I like it or not!
Is it art or isn`t?
To be honest, I really don`t give a s***!
It`s photography!

Cheers

André

Peter Schrager · Feb 23, 2006

Yes+Yes

Leon-you are right on both accounts. I was initially thinking of the still life shots but the other is justifiably famous....
Peter

Andy K · Feb 23, 2006

To paraphrase 'art is in the eye of the beholder'.

I see no art in Tracy Emin's MyBed, just opportunism in the search for a fast buck, but some looked at it and saw art.

rhphoto · Feb 23, 2006

I remember a quote by Cartier-Bresson (I think). I paraphrase: " The world is falling apart and Weston and Adams are taking pictures of rocks!".

Joe Lipka · Feb 23, 2006

It's all in the selection of the rocks.

Now you know.

Ed Sukach · Feb 23, 2006

... Is there some sort of bias against rocks here? Any landscape, in the last analysis, reduces to "a pile of rocks" - even sand dunes ... many, many teeny rocks. Even the Parthenon ... lots of (all right, modified) rocks.

Why are we - or rather, some of us - so paranoid-sensitive that we immediately assume the position that someone is trying to "cheat - that they are automatically trying to swindle us into thinking that their undeserving work is really fine, when it isn't?

There are "phonies" in this game. From what I've seen, a fair number of them actually do have "reputations" and are accepted as Fine Artists. Anyone who dares say, " ...But ... but ... the Emperor doesn't have ANY clothes on!" stands a fair chance of being beaten towards submission.

Interesting ... we have struggled with the question, "What is Art". Let us contemplate another; "What IS a phony?"

Magnus · Feb 23, 2006

The Art in Art as it goes, is the Art to try and get your work of Art sold, that my friend is the real Art of, and in Art..... Your not an artist until you can live of the Art you produce as an artist.... every other discussion on what art is, and what art isn't is so to speak, is superficial, subjective and overall very personal.

livemoa · Feb 23, 2006

Magnus said:
The Art in Art as it goes, is the Art to try and get your work of Art sold, that my friend is the real Art of, and in Art..... Your not an artist until you can live of the Art you produce as an artist.... every other discussion on what art is, and what art isn't is so to speak, is superficial, subjective and overall very personal.

I have been following these "art" threads lately. I have so far resisted taking part (been to busy working on a show), anyway thought I might throw something in, especialy as people seem to be saying that art s all about getting your work sold for lots of money and conning the public.

Hmmmmm.....

Well I am an artist. And I use a camera (well several actually) to create art and I, like most of the artists I know create because we are driven to do it, not because we want to either sell it (that would be nice, and I do sell work), to annoy people (though I some times do with my work) or to make my living at it (that would be good, but leads to other problems, such as thinking about what is going to sell).

Not all, in fact very few artists make their living directly from there art. Some teach, some work as postal delivery people, others sell insurance (Charles Ives springs to mind) others do contract HR (well, me anyway).

But I am an artist, I push boundaries, but no way do I make my living from my art. Rant ends.

removed account4 · Feb 23, 2006

André E.C. said:
I see the image, I like it or not!
Is it art or isn`t?
To be honest, I really don`t give a s***!
It`s photography!

Cheers

André

what he said ...

Magnus · Feb 23, 2006

Hi Livemoa ...

like I said:

superficial, subjective and overall very personal.

joeyk49 · Feb 23, 2006

I see it as that he was getting the rocks to pose for him...much the same as a bowl of fruit or a bag of bones..(oops, I mean a person)...

In some cases, the rocks are a whole lot easier to work with...

He creates the work and you get to decide if you like it.

Jim Chinn · Feb 23, 2006

In the example of rocks I would have to say the composition, selection, and color of the rocks would be 75% of the art. The question is if you saw the actual 3D still life in front of you would it have the same or any impact on you?

Then again, at some point the lighting, depth of field, film choice, paper, developer, printing technique and the understanding of how a 3D object will be translated and transformed by the technical into a 2D print comes into the equation. So maybe you have to flip the numbers, 75% the technical skill of the phtographer and 25% everything else.

A successful print in the eyes of the viewer is probably closer to a 50/50 proposition. If the values skew one way or the other (brilliant composition, poor technique or the other way around) it would lead to less then satisfactory experience for the viewer.

jss · Feb 23, 2006

actually, that sounds like a fun photo challenge. make an image of rocks! see how different people photograph a universally mundane object.

Vahid Naziri · Feb 23, 2006

It's not art unless it is taken using a digital camera and printed Gicleely!

Claire Senft · Feb 23, 2006

It might be better to concentrate on the soap and water in the shower and leave the rock arrangements for the sauna.

mark · Feb 23, 2006

ART=represents something of the world, express or evoke emotion, please us by its form, and stand on its own as something autonomous and self-defining.

I found this the other day and thought it was appropriate to the way i view the definition of art. In Eric's example of the pile of rocks, I would say we, as the viewer can only say the final presentation. SInce I was not present at the rock arranging, nor was I present at the printing I can only judge the image I am presented with. Capanigro's rocks are a perfect example.

blansky · Feb 23, 2006

Eric Rose said:
There have been some great photos published by a name photographersthat is essentially an arrangement of rocks. The photographer made the arrangement and then photographed it.

So where is the art? The rock arrangement or the recording of the rock arrangement via photography?

Just one of the many things I ponder in the shower LOL.

Eric as a newly wed, standing in the shower contemplating rocks may be have a whole nother psychological meaning.

I believe we have a shrink on this site, so help is on the way.

Michael

Photos of rocks etc. Where's the art?

Eric Rose

Anupam Basu

JBrunner

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jimcollum

Peter Schrager

MurrayMinchin

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jimcollum

Leon

André E.C.

Peter Schrager

Andy K

rhphoto

Joe Lipka

Ed Sukach

Magnus

livemoa

removed account4

Magnus

joeyk49

Jim Chinn

jss

Vahid Naziri

Claire Senft

mark

blansky

Photos of rocks etc. Where's the art?

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