Photokina: Positive news for film

[langedp]

...Sorry, for being a kill-joy.

Some people always have to look for the negative, even when it might not be there.

Henning: Thanks for the great report. Shoot some of that free Ektar and let us know what you think.

 

[langedp]

...last PHOTOKINA we spent a very large part of the annual
marketing budget on PHOTOKINA....

Simon,

Sounds like a prudent business decision. In many industries, trade shows aren't what they used to be. Companies have scaled back from these shows and put their marketing dollars into more cost effective channels. Glad to see you're staying focused on your market.

 

[AgX]

Some people always have to look for the negative, even when it might not be there.

Reading my other posts so far, you sure could not say I'm of the doomsday faction.

 

[schaubild]

It could be added that Alpa developed a new analog back in cooperation with Mamiya. Based on the RB backs, but with proprietary mount and 6x9. It was shown at Photokina.

http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=p...exclusive_alpa_roll_film_backs&detailpage=268

 

[AutumnJazz]

Well, I'm definitely going to Photoplus now. I was on the rocks, but I'll be there.

 

[gatewaycityca]

I just saw a link to this. Very encouraging news! This made my day! Does anyone know if Freestyle has the new Ektar 100 film yet? I want to try it out.

 

[Henning Serger]

Dear Henning,

Good report : All of us from HARMAN were indeed in Cologne:

The reason for us not exhibiting was very simple, last PHOTOKINA we spent a very large part of the annual
marketing budget on PHOTOKINA......

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Dear Simon,

thank you for your answer. As an economist I understand your decision very well. When I said I missed you, Harman/Ilford Photo, very much I said this as a customer, who uses your products. It was no critique.

But I think it is worth to reconsider your decision for the future and next photokina. Because we see a change in the sentiment. During the last years the dicussion was determined by the very hard "analogue vs. digital" and often by the "analogue is dead" discussion. The last one especially started and controlled by the guys who want to sell their (overpriced) digital equipment. The marketing guys said you had to switch to digital because there will be no more film in the future (by the way: about 10-15% of those who switched to digital did this because they believed this marketing lie, not because they were unsatisfied with film).
And Photokina 2002, 2004 and 2006 were heavily affected by these discussions.

But now we see the beginning of a process, that even the hard core digitals (the "digitaliban" ) are accepting that film is still there and has a future.
Only one example: I had an interesting talk with the editor of the german magazin "fine art printer". This magazine is specialised on ink jet printing and digital workflows. He said we accept that photographers love their traditional darkroom. And he has even planned a new series in his magazin about traditional printing techniques like cyanotype! He said we want these traditional printing techniques to keep alive.

I think there is definitely a change in the sentiment. It is just in the beginning, but it is there. The "analogue vs. digital" war is over. The discussions were heated up, and for some time now they are cooling down. That offers chances to get more photographers into using film. And yes, especially at digital dominated fairs like Photokina. The Lomo guys, but some others as well, e.g. the Kodak, Fuji, Rollei-Film staff, proved that you can have success to encourage people to use film.
Especially the younger ones. We have a new generation of photographers: They grew up with digital and have never used film. In their leisure time they are sitting in front of their computers. That is normal for them, nothing special, not very exciting and often boring.
They were not involved in the "film vs. digital" war of the older photographers.
They are unencumbered (right word? or unladen?). Film is new for them, exciting, no boring computer work as every day. A new and different medium.
Hey, you can always change your sensor if you want . And with a positive (slide) or negative you have something physical in your hand, a real picture, not bit and bytes in the deep space somewhere on your hard drive.
In the darkroom they can work manuel, seeing the wonder of the picture genesis in the developer. It's more like craft. A good variety to daily computer work.

There are lot of ideas to get (young) people in touch with film on a (digital dominated) fair. The way the Lomographic Society has chosen was only one, but very successful. Respect.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

It could be added that Alpa developed a new analog back in cooperation with Mamiya. Based on the RB backs, but with proprietary mount and 6x9. It was shown at Photokina.

http://www.alpa.ch/index.php?path=p...exclusive_alpa_roll_film_backs&detailpage=268

Thank you for this addition.
As I have said, I gave you only a short report. My list was not complete at all. There were more new items for us film users on Photokina. But I had not the time to check all.

Just something anecdotic in addition: At some boothes of manufacturers of digital equipment the staff told me, that they prefer film for their private use . "I love slides, and I will never give up shooting them, but I'm not allowed to say this loud here at the booth". Original quotation.
Others told me from their F3s, now "pimped" with new Zeiss ZF lenses, which they use regularly, or their Plaubel Makina 67, which they will never give away.

All these talks were lot of fun .

Best regards,
Henning

 

[menelajas]

Thanks for good news

 

[snallan]

Cheers Henning, thanks for the report.

 

[Simon R Galley]

Dear Henning

Thanks for the reply, we will be looking at the option of exhibiting at PHOTOKINA in 2010, it very much depends on what PHOTOKINA do....

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

 

[Wyno]

Thankyou for the report Henning. I have passed it on to the photography lecturers at the TAFE where I work.
Mike

 

[AutumnJazz]

Dear Simon,

thank you for your answer. As an economist I understand your decision very well. When I said I missed you, Harman/Ilford Photo, very much I said this as a customer, who uses your products. It was no critique.

But I think it is worth to reconsider your decision for the future and next photokina. Because we see a change in the sentiment. During the last years the dicussion was determined by the very hard "analogue vs. digital" and often by the "analogue is dead" discussion. The last one especially started and controlled by the guys who want to sell their (overpriced) digital equipment. The marketing guys said you had to switch to digital because there will be no more film in the future (by the way: about 10-15% of those who switched to digital did this because they believed this marketing lie, not because they were unsatisfied with film).
And Photokina 2002, 2004 and 2006 were heavily affected by these discussions.

But now we see the beginning of a process, that even the hard core digitals (the "digitaliban" ) are accepting that film is still there and has a future.
Only one example: I had an interesting talk with the editor of the german magazin "fine art printer". This magazine is specialised on ink jet printing and digital workflows. He said we accept that photographers love their traditional darkroom. And he has even planned a new series in his magazin about traditional printing techniques like cyanotype! He said we want these traditional printing techniques to keep alive.

I think there is definitely a change in the sentiment. It is just in the beginning, but it is there. The "analogue vs. digital" war is over. The discussions were heated up, and for some time now they are cooling down. That offers chances to get more photographers into using film. And yes, especially at digital dominated fairs like Photokina. The Lomo guys, but some others as well, e.g. the Kodak, Fuji, Rollei-Film staff, proved that you can have success to encourage people to use film.
Especially the younger ones. We have a new generation of photographers: They grew up with digital and have never used film. In their leisure time they are sitting in front of their computers. That is normal for them, nothing special, not very exciting and often boring.
They were not involved in the "film vs. digital" war of the older photographers.
They are unencumbered (right word? or unladen?). Film is new for them, exciting, no boring computer work as every day. A new and different medium.
Hey, you can always change your sensor if you want . And with a positive (slide) or negative you have something physical in your hand, a real picture, not bit and bytes in the deep space somewhere on your hard drive.
In the darkroom they can work manuel, seeing the wonder of the picture genesis in the developer. It's more like craft. A good variety to daily computer work.

There are lot of ideas to get (young) people in touch with film on a (digital dominated) fair. The way the Lomographic Society has chosen was only one, but very successful. Respect.

Best regards,
Henning

I actually grew up with film and digital at the same time. I have been lucky enough to grow up in a pretty affluent family, so we had "the best" film cameras and "the first" digital cameras. And computers, and all that.

I like film because it is different, looks different, is physical, etc.

Now, though, people are growing up without film.

 

[Jedidiah Smith]

Just wanted to say I put a link in over at Photo.net's film forum, hopefully many read your post here.
This is great.
Thanks,
Jed

 

[Henning Serger]

Further information

Dear apug members,

some of you asked me for further details about the filmtest results of Zeiss. They had problems to find these publications on the Zeiss website.
Here they are (all published in their magazine "camera lens news 17, 19, 20, 22, 24, and in their magazin "Innovation: Fotografie spezial"):

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN_17e/$File/cln17e.pdf

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN_19_en/$File/CLN19_en.pdf

http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/429a2f5d9151b60dc1256f2c0023b06b

http://www.zeiss.de/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/098729cea9ef2428c1257118005d1d20

http://www.zeiss.de/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/098729cea9ef2428c1257118005d1d20

http://www.zeiss.de/C12571FF0043275C
/0/7F4268A116C2BC66C1257210003FDFB0/$file/inno_photo_de.pdf

( page 10 + 11, article by Dr. Hubert Nasse, senior scientist and chief optic designer, and the pages about the Zeiss Ikon rangefinder camera)

http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/Contents-Frame/2DFB31CE532E5E32C125711B0038D874

(furthermore please go to the "virtual tour of the lens production", and then to Foyer 06, "results of unparalled quality", there is an outstanding picture with the legendary Kodak Ektar 25)

Zeiss is clearly emphazising the qualities of film, especially it's superior resolution. Zeiss is the world's most important optic company. About 99% of their camera optics are made for digital cameras. But nevertheless they have the courage to tell the truth: film has higher resolution in most cases (of course dependant on the film you are using). If they make such strong statements, it is of greatest importance, because they are an absolute reliable source. Nearly no other optical company has such detailed knowledge, so deep scientific roots and scientific test methods. But their test results are a bit hidden on their website. Therfore I hope my links are helpful for you.

And as I have said before, my own test results clearly show the superior resolution of film as well. But probably you will trust Zeiss more than me (nevertheless I am working on a publication of my test results. Currently I am looking for a scan service with a drum scanner, which can manage resolution values higher than 140 Lp/mm).

And I just want to add some details to my Photokina report:

Maco/Rollei-Film: I have forgotten to say that they have introduced two more films: The Rollei Retro 400S and the Supergraphic ATO 2.1.
Retro 400S is the same emulsion technology as Superpan 200, but with higher ISO 400/27° sensivity. Clear long term stable PET base, extended red sensivity (you can use this film as an infrared film if you want).
Rollei Supergraphic ATO 2.1 is a film for creative experiments, because of its very high contrast (you can get pictures with only black and white, no or nearly midtones).

Braun (Carl Braun Nürnberg, Germany): They introduced a new 35mm compact camera for snapshooters. Seems that even the market for small pocket snapshoot cameras is not going completely digital in the future. Official data: In 2007 100.000 of these cameras were sold in Germany. A local camera shop owner told me, that there is still demand for such cameras, and that he himself often has to look for good ones on ebay to satisfy the demand of his customers. Probably that is the reason why Braun has introduced a new one. Fuji exhibited their line of these cameras at photokina, too.

www.camera-imago.com : For me it was the absolute highlight of this years Photokina. Probably the world’s greatest camera. You walk into it, place youself in front of a mirror to see whether you are looking good enough for the picture, and then push the button….The lens is in direction of the mirror. The picture is exposed directly onto paper (direct positive paper), format: 60x200 cm! You get a unique picture, no negative. The developing machine is integrated in the camera-imago. Susanna Kraus is running this camera, which was built by her father in the seventies. Some years ago she started to resurrect this concept, which was very difficult, because it was no direct positive paper available anymore. All the experts told her that it will be impossible. But with an enormous enthusiasm and energy she managed it. The emulsion of this paper is now made by Ilford Switzerland, and Fotokemika is coating the emulsion on paper.

At the moment she is on tour with the camera-imago (she has a special truck for transporting), the next six weeks she will be in Berlin. If you are visiting Berlin, you know what you have to do concerning self portraits……

Best regards,
Henning

 

[PBrooks]

Did they say when the Rollei ATP would be available in 120?

 

[BobbyR]

Mr. Serger:
You are a scholar and a saint.
Thank you,
Bobby

 

[makow]

Thank you, It is good news to hear that film is still alive and well

 

[Aurelien]

Something is strange with maco: they do not say the same thing to everybody. As far as I am concerned, I discussed by mail with Hartmuth, the Maco's boss, and he told me that the rollei retro 400S will be a APX 400 emulsion, coated on a PET base (S for synthetic).
Clearly I am not interested in infrared films except in certain cases. And the majority of films proposed by rollei today are also infrared.

 

[AgX]

Aurelien,

That Rollei Retro 400S is one of the Maco mysteries:

The resolution, emulsion thicknes in combination with the PET base hints at the gone Agfapan APX 400S (APX 400 on PET ),

the spectral range of 380-730 hints at the gone Agfapan APX 200 S,

the spectral sensitivity chart is the same as that of the Aviphot 400 S (Rollei IR 400)

 

[Aurelien]

"APX/Retro:
We have sold out the Agfa Germany made APX 400 film 35mm. 135-36 not 30,5m.
The successor is the Agfa-Gevaert 400 ISO film, coated onto a 100 micron SYNTHETIC film base,
with the same developing parameters like the old one.
We have only changed the FILMBASE für the 35mm version, nothing else.
For rollfilm in the near future."

A mail from :
"Hartmuth Schroeder DGPh, Hon.ES-ÖGPh
Director
MACO PHOTO PRODUCTS
Hans O. Mahn GmbH & Co. KG
Brookstieg 4
22145 Hamburg-Stapelfeld"

 

[AgX]

Aurelien,

to my understanding this quotation means means that the Rollei Retro 400S is the same as the Agfapan APX 400S, a gone security film of the Agfa Leverkusen range.

Or Agfa has custom-made again an APX400 emulsion and coated it...

 

[AgX]

Keep in mind that both companies (Flemish mother and German doughter) were called Agfa-Gevaert.

 

[Aurelien]

"Retro 400S:
This film is Agfa-Gevaert made - no blue, glass clear, like our Rollei Infrared.

There is no "S"-emulsion, the difference is only "S"-film base.
"S" stands for SYNTHETIC."

I understand that as : the emulsion is the APX 400 one, corated onto a Clear PET base.

The former Agfapan 400S was already a ordinar agfapan 400 emulsion coated on a bluish PET base, like another maco film, the maco 400 cube...

I have a lot of agfapan400S in my fridge, and I use it when I want an old fashion look, very grainy. So It will be easier to test the difference...

 

[Henning Serger]

Did they say when the Rollei ATP would be available in 120?

Yes, they said it will be available during the next weeks.

Concerning Retro 400S: no need for speculation and interpretation of different data sheets. Data sheets never tell you the whole story about a film, how it looks and works.
If you are interested and want to know how this film works, try it and look at the results. If you like the results, all is fine. If you don't like the results, all is fine as well, because there are enough excellent alternatives in the ISO 400/27° range on the market.
Don't worry, be happy. Life is good to us BW Photographers these days .

Best regards,
Henning