Photography School Options - GASP! Stone might finally learn something!

your local public library will
have information about score (score.org )
volunteers who help people in your situation.

Stone,

Can you specify what you want to learn in photoshop and the darkroom? I think that might might it easier to understand (i.e. bullet point lists)

Tom

and about PS. If that's one of your main concerns, you don't need to go for post secondary to become proficient in it. There are usually PS experts holding workshops all over the place etc..

Wayne said:

Plenty of people get their start or get ahead by volunteering, I'm not sure why you are analogizing it with being homeless garbage eating. I got my start in my field by volunteering. But you have to have enough to live on while you're doing it, and it sounds like that may not be the case for Stone right now. But he shouldn't dismiss the idea entirely. It can open the right doors.

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I'm not disparaging the approach. Although generally speaking, "volunteering" is giving without the expectation of a tangible return (beyond the pro bono aspect). While "unpaid interning" is giving with the expectation of a return, often taking the form of more favorable hiring consideration at a later date. Except as noted in those companies that intentionally abuse that consideration.

I'm questioning the wisdom of recommending an unpaid internship to someone who has already said he can't afford to do it.

While the OP could certainly take a not-for-pay internship to get his foot in the door (hopefully achieved without resorting to a counterfeit diploma), at some point no later than the second day of holding that door open with his foot I can pretty much guarantee you that he's going to need a McDonald's run.

Then what?

Ken

Stone,

I used to have people ask me "how can I become a commercial photographer?" My standard answer was, "take two asprin, and lie down till the feeling goes away." It's a great hobby, and wonderful passion. It can be a rather brutal business. Can you make a living? Yes. An I can guarantee the best way to make a small fortune in the business is to start with a large one. So, I really have to ask "why". if you have the incurable infection of love of the art, having to do it every day may possibly cure you, and that would be a shame. It burned me out for several years.

So I am going to recommend you consider something a bit different. Learn something in high demand that pays well. As an example - ( Unix / Linux system administration - RHCE, Network Security CISSP, < forget Windows, same amount and time to learn, not as high paying or as in demand >. Then get a couple years experience, and make enough to be able to do what you love and have enough coin to rub together that you can afford that most expensive of hobbies known to man... Marriage and family. With enough left over for a camera or 10. Many may disagree with the above suggestion - but the years I spent doing commercial work saw financial struggles at every dip of the economy. Economy still kinda stinks - but I am in the aforementioned field and we cannot find enough qualified people.

Ahem... If anyone is looking for a job, and you have some of the above Linux / Network skills, there is a bounty on your head. PM me, and I will let you know more.

Anyway, I tell my kids that everything from the neck down is minimum wage. The paper - almost any paper can get your foot in the door in many places, however a MARKETABLE skill that pays very well and doing photography as a hobby / sideline may be more to your liking than doing photography for a living, and having to work some side job to pay the bills when the work is not coming in.

Amazing amounts of advice here. All in all, I think every one wants to see you succeed in life! A great group of people.

Warmest regards,

Blaine

Thanks everyone, again, this is what I'm doing, stop telling me to not go to school, if you're not interested in giving advice about GOING to photography school, then just don't give any.

Tom Kershaw said:

Stone,

Can you specify what you want to learn in photoshop and the darkroom? I think that might might it easier to understand (i.e. bullet point lists)

Tom

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Printing in the darkroom (I develop film, but scan it)

And photoshop... EVERYTHING I don't understand a damn thing...

StoneNYC said:

Wow, you're as bad as ROL... Thanks for the helpful insight into how worthless I am... Photography is my greatest talent, and since that's obviously worthless I might as well just kill myself now...

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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Shell
never date coworker
always wear a helmet for US 'football'
a portfolio has 12 shots each in different genre all film on RC - that gets you paid digital work If you want it
stop feeding trolls
be happy...

Our press are not allowed to do even a joiner if they do instant dismissal...
They asked did I have a ultra wide...
If you don't like weddings you need to stop eating bread.

blaine.minazzi said:

It's a great hobby, and wonderful passion. It can be a rather brutal business.

So I am going to recommend you consider something a bit different. Learn something in high demand that pays well. Then get a couple years experience, and make enough to be able to do what you love and have enough coin to rub together that you can afford that most expensive of hobbies known to man...

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Good advice indeed. Take a look around you and try to find a rich and successful photographer, then look for rich lawyers & accountants. Although money and success is not the ultimate goal in life, it sure is a lot easier to indulge in expensive hobbies. At the end of the day, only you can decide on your goals in life. If you want to go for that degree and have the opportunity, that will be your choice.

Take time to explore all your options and consider the alternatives with an open mind.

StoneNYC said:

Printing in the darkroom (I develop film, but scan it)

And photoshop... EVERYTHING I don't understand a damn thing...

Click to expand...

Well, there is a difference between learning "everything" about Photoshop and learning the principles which can then be used for photographic work, which is a subset of Photoshop's capabilities. May also be worth pointing out that other photo editing applications are available, e.g. Photoline - www.pl32.de

IMHO learning the darkroom basics is the best starting point for understanding Photoshop, since most of what happens in Photoshop for the purposes of our discussion is relatable to darkroom work. I would really think about setting up a small darkroom if you possibly can. What formats do you use, do you know what equipment you need?

Oh, and cut down on all the various developer & film combinations, keeping it simple will help you to control your variables.

Tom

Xmas said:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Shell
never date coworker
always wear a helmet for US 'football'
a portfolio has 12 shots each in different genre all film on RC - that gets you paid digital work If you want it
stop feeding trolls
be happy...

Click to expand...

Thanks for the portfolio thing, 12 huh? I didn't know that, thanks.

I'm ok, I just think some people can be so cruel, who says that to a person??

Good thing I don't do drugs...

Good very early morning to you Mr. Stone!

Hmmm. Maybe my Texan does not translate well up there, or the jist of what I am saying is coming across different that what I am trying to convey. I am pulling for ya! That was a failed attempt at humor there... "take two aspirin"

I don't think you will be limited to learning only one subject in school. So, your "plan b" could just as well be something that has enough demand that you will never be at a loss for good employment, esp. if you exit school with debt. With debt and finances in mind, going to school in state may be a godsend, if the tuition differences are like what they are here for in state vs. out of state.

My Grandson starts college in the fall in state, and my niece just got accepted by schools both here in Texas, and at the school in Greeley Co. for her masters. She felt, ( as many college applicants do ) that out of state schools are somehow better, she chose to go out of state.
Higher tuition, more debt, and in a profession she has chosen that the pay is not the best.

Just last week I talked to a guy who's Daughter in Colorado is going to go to Texas Tech, cause she feels its better than the schools there... And Texas kids thinking that University of Norther Colorado, is somehow "better" etc. The grass is always greener . .

And I fell for it also. Years ago, right out of HS, I wanted to go to Spartan School of Aeronautics - Ended up getting my commercial ticket at a FAA approved part 141 school right in here in town and saved 20K back in the late 70's. ( HUGE amount of dollars in the late 70's. )
Back then I would have told you that I would have been a better pilot had I gone to Spartan. Today, some 35 years later, I don't think so. I had the benefit of some old pilots / instructors, that were retired ATP or military guys. Learned things from them that I could not have learned from less experienced pilots.

The fact is, most people end up not working in the field they have their degree in, and Most employers don't really give a rats -something- where you went to school, and other than jobs within the hard sciences - what you got your degree in does not really matter. But those things really only come into play when your working for someone else.

If you plan on eventually having your own business as most photographers do, it's all a moot point, as previously mentioned, you need a good portfolio, and a *large* amount of ability to sell yourself.

So, by all means go to school. Btw, I was blessed to have a relative who was a commercial photographer in Austin. He helped with by having a large lab and studio - But most was learned curled up with a few hundred good books over a period of 2 - 3 years.. Kodak technical manuals, etc.

Really, man, I want you to succeed. Keep the fire burning.

If there are any good schools in NY that teach photography, and they are less expensive than out of state tuition, I would do that and read everything I could get my hands on. There is no magic bullet in education afaik. Success is more about the hard work you invest in yourself than what school you attend. School gets you the foundation - but your hard work in the field will build the house.
Regards,

Blaine

Tom Kershaw said:

Well, there is a difference between learning "everything" about Photoshop and learning the principles which can then be used for photographic work, which is a subset of Photoshop's capabilities. May also be worth pointing out that other photo editing applications are available, e.g. Photoline - www.pl32.de

IMHO learning the darkroom basics is the best starting point for understanding Photoshop, since most of what happens in Photoshop for the purposes of our discussion is relatable to darkroom work. I would really think about setting up a small darkroom if you possibly can. What formats do you use, do you know what equipment you need?

Oh, and cut down on all the various developer & film combinations, keeping it simple will help you to control your variables.

Tom

Click to expand...

I'll have a nice darkroom at the school I'll be attending for my associates in PHOTOGRAPHY

And yes it's nice to have fundamentals, I don't even have that, not in photoshop anyway. And those other programs (like gimp) are even more baffling...

I've already honed my film and developer choices so don't worry about that part.

Thanks Blaine,

Honestly at this point in the game I'm fairly certain I'm settled on Paier...

And $25,000 for 2 years is pretty inexpensive.

Also, I think that there is some money that will cover the 2 year, not the 4, and it will be little debt for the 2 year in the end.

Thanks.

A CV is on one page single sided with font sized not to need reading glasses.

Your customer should not need to page through more than two or three of portfolio - but if Truzi thought they were suspect a % of your potential customers will close email and block your address.

Communication is about abstraction text as well as graphics.

If your model does drugs... you could be sharing a cell with Bob...

Xmas said:

A CV is on one page single sided with font sized not to need reading glasses.

Your customer should not need to page through more than two or three of portfolio - but if Truzi thought they were suspect a % of your potential customers will close email and block your address.

Communication is about abstraction text as well as graphics.

If your model does drugs... you could be sharing a cell with Bob...

Click to expand...

Only drugs I would consider is a documentary piece on drug addiction. If I were a reporter most likely.

I've been requested to send a port to potentially photograph an actor for a movie promo. So you have helped, will be sent digitally.

Hello Gandolfi,

If I may ask, exactly what school is it that you are speaking about, and how might a US citizen manage to go there? I have temporary residence in Poland and would be very interested in studying photography in Denmark.

Thanks,

joe

jmarsh said:

Hello Gandolfi,

If I may ask, exactly what school is it that you are speaking about, and how might a US citizen manage to go there? I have temporary residence in Poland and would be very interested in studying photography in Denmark.

Thanks,

joe

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(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Bob Shell's advice about a portfolio is rather dated. And I'd make it more like 20 not 12. And I'd make absolutely sure that all 20 are kick-ASS images, not just personal favorites. Show your portfolio around to photography friends and actually sit and listen to the critique they offer on each and every image.

TheFlyingCamera said:

Bob Shell's advice about a portfolio is rather dated. And I'd make it more like 20 not 12. And I'd make absolutely sure that all 20 are kick-ASS images, not just personal favorites. Show your portfolio around to photography friends and actually sit and listen to the critique they offer on each and every image.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

StoneNYC said:

I'm ok, I just think some people can be so cruel, who says that to a person??

Click to expand...

in art school, photo school &c they often times give point blank
harsh, so harsh you want to leave but you can't critiques.
they aren't just names on the internet .. they are classmates and teachers ..
then you have to pick yourself off the floor, or out from under the table
answer to the critiquer|s ... and go back to class the next day, hopefully
putting more photographs on the wall that don't get the same reaction.

hopefully in + after school you will get a thicker skin
because if you are like this after you get out you are going
to have a lot of trouble taking rejection
as you try to sell your talents, skills and photographs

TheFlyingCamera said:

Bob Shell's advice about a portfolio is rather dated. And I'd make it more like 20 not 12. And I'd make absolutely sure that all 20 are kick-ASS images, not just personal favorites. Show your portfolio around to photography friends and actually sit and listen to the critique they offer on each and every image.

Click to expand...

I might not have time to look at more than three...
Showing photos to photogs is risky, & if you do know your best three you are going to starve.
The portfolio needs to be slanted to each customers domain. If it is for brides mums one set, for hard news a different set, pano mag ...

Stone- If photography is truly your passion, go to school. I'm at the age where many of my friends are wondering whether they should have followed their passions at a younger age. They're very successful (financially), but feel like they may have missed out on something, even if it wouldn't have been as lucrative. There's more to life than money. Even if you find the need to pay your bills in another field, you'll probably have no regrets.

As John said, you'll need to develop thicker skin. Your art will be questioned, criticized, and rejected. You'll also get a lot of rejections if you choose to do commercial work.

You're single, childless, and only responsible for your own well-being. You're in the perfect position to pursue your dreams...

The only thing I have to add here is this. If you must borrow to attend school-DON'T. A GSL is an albatross that will hang about your neck forever. It will interfere with life plans literally for decades after it's paid off. Avoid them at all costs.

Simply advice do with it what you please.