"Photography has nothin to do with cameras"

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blockend

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I have to disagree here. The gear can have an influence on creative photography, for example: Someone going out shooting with a holga is going to be creating something (and likely thinking about their subject matter) very different than someone out shooting with a Rollei, even if they both are using the same 120 film. And I know sometimes I pick VERY specific gear for an image I want to create. Even very basic things about gear like the focal length chosen is part of the creative process and can rule out certain gear, for example if I know the image I want to creat needs the compression only a long lens can provide, rules out my rolleiflex.
I think gear is hugely over-emphasised in the role of making compelling images. In fact I believe it's counter-productive in many instances, leading to paralysis by analysis, or more often an unrealistic sense that equipment alone will somehow promote a visceral response to the image. My argument is while the response to, say, a 10 x 8 chrome is real, the materials of its construction will not offer any lasting emotional draw beyond that of spectacle. Which is why photography as description and photography as creation shouldn't be conflated. In other words a sharp large format colour saturated transparency is certainly capable of being used creatively, but it won't be its technical attributes that confer lasting merit or memorability.

This morning's radio contained a segment with Antarctic penguins being counted from a space satellite. The resolution of the camera allows for accuracy to a couple of centimetres. For tracking penguins, or rogue cells in the body, or deep space optical phenomena, resolution is a really useful tool, but it's still difficult to know what it offers creatively, beyond spectacle. Personally, I own cameras from 5 x 4" to plastic lens P&S, and digital full frame, APS-C and M43. There have been long periods when I've shot almost exclusively on 6 x 9 colour negative, vintage folding cameras, and black and white film in an SLR. In hindsight, I could have chosen any one of those media, exclusively, and produced good work. This is not a reflection on my ability, nor a lack of regard for what each medium brings to the aesthetic mix, but a sense that what makes a photograph memorable isn't contained in the amount of silver or dye, or the optical formula of a lens.
 

StepheKoontz

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I think gear is hugely over-emphasised in the role of making compelling images.

Of course it is, but to say gear has "nothing" to do with the results or how successful someone is at creating a good image (their creative vision) is going to the extreme in the other direction. It's like saying the film choice has no effect. A image shot on grainy B&W is going to evoke a very different feel than a fine grain color shot will.
 

blockend

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Of course it is, but to say gear has "nothing" to do with the results or how successful someone is at creating a good image (their creative vision) is going to the extreme in the other direction. It's like saying the film choice has no effect. A image shot on grainy B&W is going to evoke a very different feel than a fine grain color shot will.
The nothing to do with photography title was just provocation, surely. I was coming from the opposite angle, give a talented photographer any camera, and they'll make an interesting image. Digital Rev used to do a cheap camera challenge on YouTube, where they gave a professional an oddball, lo-res, toy camera with quirky controls and limited battery life. New camera sales are predicated on factors that have almost nothing to do with the aesthetic quality of the images made, yet people flock to buy the latest model. They must think at some level the new camera will make their pictures better, but there's no evidence it does.
 

removed account4

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They must think at some level the new camera will make their pictures better, but there's no evidence it does

thats because photography has nothing to do with equipment but the eyeballs and brain of the person behind the image capture device. as mentioned over the years i was classmates with someone who couldn't make a photograph to save his life with a 35mm camera and one day he came to class with a rollie that cost 10x as much as the car i was driving. it didn't help his eyeballs or brain, but it sure was a nice camera !
 

Vaughn

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I think gear is hugely over-emphasised in the role of making compelling images. In fact I believe it's counter-productive in many instances, leading to paralysis by analysis, or more often an unrealistic sense that equipment alone will somehow promote a visceral response to the image. My argument is while the response to, say, a 10 x 8 chrome is real, the materials of its construction will not offer any lasting emotional draw beyond that of spectacle. Which is why photography as description and photography as creation shouldn't be conflated. In other words a sharp large format colour saturated transparency is certainly capable of being used creatively, but it won't be its technical attributes that confer lasting merit or memorability.
...
Gear and technique are just easy to talk about, so we hear a lot about it. The creative stuff is largely private and difficult to share for most...and if you do, you'll need a thick skin.

Anyone who is "led "to paralysis by analysis" does so because they enjoy it. There will always be gear-heads and science-types who will fuss over equipment and/or do extensive testing and have little real interest in image-making (or promoting a visceral response to their imagery), other than as an excuse to fuss more over equipment and/or do more extensive testing. Cool! Let them have fun and fuss away...they even can make interesting images. I would not use their existence as a measure of what is happening with photography as a whole, and especially not in photography as an art form. But internet forums are their natural habitat,,,and camera clubs, so their impact here is greatest. We all can learn good things from such people. The gear-heads often help others in finding the best tools and methods for them making their art.
 

StepheKoontz

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New camera sales are predicated on factors that have almost nothing to do with the aesthetic quality of the images made, yet people flock to buy the latest model. They must think at some level the new camera will make their pictures better, but there's no evidence it does.

Given I am "flocking" to prewar gear for the look I get from it, I don't think everyone chooses their gear based on it being "better".
 

John51

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The role of the camera in great photography is the same as the pen in great literature.

The writing instrument can make a difference.

Ernest Hemingway typed conversations while standing up because the results were more natural.

Barbara Cartland dictated her romance novels.

Using a different way of getting words onto a page would change the result.
 

removed account4

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Given I am "flocking" to prewar gear for the look I get from it, I don't think everyone chooses their gear based on it being "better".
Hi StepheKoontz:
I think it all has to do with what one thinks is "better". "Better" just means the camera - lens - film - developer, - enlarger- process the image is made with "works" with the way one sees the world.
my comments about my school-chum andy wasn't meant to do anything but personify the sometimes painfully difficult act of searching for the right materials, process and tools to be an extension of the brains and eyes beind the camera ( and be better ). last I saw andy, he was using a view camera and LOVING IT.. and LOVING IT is part of the equation.. if someone isn't loving the way the whole image making thing, its going to be an obstacle one has to overcome before they can crank some tunes. funny thing is I LOVE using simple box cameras, but I can't use a holga or bencini or argus to save my life ...
 

StepheKoontz

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Hi StepheKoontz:
if someone isn't loving the way the whole image making thing, its going to be an obstacle one has to overcome before they can crank some tunes.

This is why I went back to shooting film, specifically B&W film. When I converted to digital, it lost part of the joy I got from using an all mechanical device, the anticipation of seeing the film come out of the developing tank and yes the knowledge that if I didn't nail the shot in camera, there wasn't much if any chance of saving it in "post". And just as a photographer learns to "see light", when shooting in B&W it removes color from the composition, and reduces it to the luminosity values, which we can paint through the use of colored filters. I can never shoot with B&W and color film in the same outing, I always come home with garbage when I have tried. And I personally was never able to "see" in B&W when I was shooting digital. Knowing that the only option is B&W changes the way I see and shoot, in a good way. Likewise if I'm shooting with an old simple box camera, it changes the subject matter I might choose vs shooting with a very high resolution camera. I have also found that by imposing specific limitations (like leaving the house with a single prime lens on a camera) inspires my creativity. YMMV
 

Luckless

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"Better" will always be subjective and strongly depended on what one is trying to do?

Which is better? An 8x10 film camera with the most a perfectly corrected modern lens in a reliable shutter, a 35mm disposable camera, or a modern digital camera that can record 4k at 1000fps with no rolling shutter effect?

Well if you're a scientist studying the movement of something, that 8x10 probably isn't going to do a lot for you. Probably won't do a lot for you if you're a young student artist and only have a few bucks to spend on your project, or if you simply want something you can carry around in your pocket as you go about your daily life and be able to quickly snap photos of the moment as you come across them...

Two cameras can both be far better than each other at the same time, depending on your goals and what you value out of them.
 
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Really? Compared to the technical stuff I reckon luck is absolutely essential. The only good shots I've ever taken were 10% planning and 90% luck.
Yes! "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity". According to Roman philosopher Seneca.
 

Luckless

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Really? Compared to the technical stuff I reckon luck is absolutely essential. The only good shots I've ever taken were 10% planning and 90% luck.

It was mostly a joke about my nickname. Typically people see the name and assume it is the same as Unlucky or Bad Luck, rather than doing things without trying to rely on luck for things to go right.

Luck itself can go a long way and do a lot of things, but it is hardly a path to consistent positive outcomes...
 

Paul Ozzello

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Photography has EVERYTHING to do with cameras. Every camera has a different way of drawing an image and has its own personality.

To give meaning to a picture photographers are responsible for learning how the camera sees and how to translate their own vision with a particular camera’s own interpretation of reality.
 

awty

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Camera is just a light proof box with a lens up one end and light sensitive material or digital thingy up the other end. Camera is the least important aspect of the equation. Lens and film are far more important to the final product.
Ultimately the photographer is by far the most important aspect in making a picture. To be a better photographer you should spend more time understanding what makes a good pocture and less time discussing the equipment.
 

Vaughn

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Reminds me of the old joke about the different parts of the body arguing who was the most important...the brains, eyes, stomach, backbone and all, were making a big noise over the matter. Then a voice rose up from below and the asshole spoke, "Shut up or I'll clamp up for a week." All was silent again.
 

tomkatf

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My favorites have been:
"F8 and be there... 10 minutes early"
And
"Get Close, then get closer"...
T
 

Black Dog

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My favorites have been:
"F8 and be there... 10 minutes early"
And
"Get Close, then get closer"...
T
F64 and be there for me!:wink:
 
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I scanned some old slides and found that the images evoked nicer pictures. They had a panache about them. I also looked at some of my older digital shots taken on an old P&S of 4mb. They too had a smoother look, not sharp from resolution you get in today cameras. They old pictures look more natural especially street shots. Darker shadows, more contrast. The spectacularly shark images of today often seem sterile.

Also, content and composition is king. Who said the thing about taking sharp pictures of fuzzy ideas?
 

Peter Schrager

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most equipment IS the barrier to making better photographs
I myself have had many many different cameras; lenses; and used different film with different developers thinking it is the answer
No way...since I'm down to a few simple cameras with one lens for each; some with shutters and some without the artist in me has more to say

"I am not looking for anything;I'm just looking-trying to have as full an experience as possible. the point is to have a full experience- the photo is just a bonus"
Michael Smith
 

Peter Schrager

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Fred Picker used to give a simple exercise:
you go out with one film holder; that's it just one and make a photo. it might just force you to think about your relationship to your surroundings. I did that today in the freezing cold...if the universe wants to give it up it will be on the negative!
I spent a lovely afternoon with Michael Smith and Paula Chamlee before he died. Michael told me that he just makes ONE exposure. now I've always taken at least 2 but the reality of that set in for me. With the one you get serendipity....with 2 you get repetitive. now I just make one and it's working out just fine because I'm working with nature not trying to capture it.
 
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