Photography and depression

jimgalli · Feb 9, 2006

Schedule didn't permit me to read the entire thread, just the first page and a few posts on this one.

Getting back to the original idea, I think we Americans have gone farther to prove that a lack of difficulty only results in shallow people. The flip side might be the Irish in the 1840's and beyond. Severe pressure caused severe beauty in what that culture has produced. Just one example. Of course depression is a given in the human condition, and also a cause to rejoice in beauty. Certainly that truth transcends photography.

Wayne · Feb 9, 2006

jeroldharter said:
Wayne's denial of the existence of biologically based mental illness seems odd. A brain is the most difficult organ to study. Apart from cutting up a dead brain what can you do? MRI's, which are relatively recent inventions, show gross anatomy and PET scans can show gross physiology. But the technology is still lacking. Nevertheless, there are a number of documented brain differences in various mental illnesses but nothing pathognomonic yet. Also, prove the null hypothesis that brains of patients with mental illness function normally. That can't be done either. A reasonable person would at least suspend judgement.

The burden of proof is generally placed on those claiming the existence of something which is invisible, for the very reason that the null hypothesis is rather impossible to prove.

I am quite reasonable. I never denied that a mental illness could be biological, I said that there was not a single mental illness PROVEN to be biological disease, and the evidence for such a conclusion was highly debateable. A true disease in the medical sense has diagnostic morphological or functional pathology. No pathology= no confirmed disease. You may call it a possible disease, a potential disease, or anything else that clearly indicates the lack of certainty. The failure to do so shows who is and who isnt suspending judgement.

Now look at article titles from the National Institue of Mental Health
"Largest Study to Date on Pediatric Bipolar Disorder Describes Disease Characteristics And Short-Term Outcomes". Or how about this " The Invisible Disease: Depression".

Since there is in fact no proven disease , which you have admitted, (semantic arguments about patients having a "lack of ease" notwithstanding), how "reasonable" would you say these titles are? NIMH is the lead Federal agency for research on mental and behavioral disorders. Have they "suspended judgement"?

John Koehrer · Feb 9, 2006

Wayne
Is depression physical or emotional? Beats me. I do know that I am becoming more functional after a regimen of "puppy uppers and doggie downers" than I have been for a long, long time. I still have great problems with concentration and memory. Still have tendencies towards suicidal thought. Find it difficult to go into crowded/unfamiliar areas. And still experience the occaisional flashback. I may never be totally free of this but the drugs & rent a friend do help.
If you don't believe in psychiatry that's your prerogative, however it doesn't give you the right to criticize what works for me.

Claire Senft · Feb 9, 2006

There was a thread by eremius..I hope the spelling is correct...musing on the fine work done by Soviet artists during the worst periods of oppression that seems to be reduced by having a freer atmospere for the arts. This was about a month ago.

I think there might be an interesting corollation between that discussion and this one.

Wayne · Feb 9, 2006

John Koehrer however it doesn't give you the right to criticize what works for me.[/QUOTE said:
John, I never criticised what you choose to do, you and all other
adults should do what you think is best for yourself. I have nothing but respect and compassion
for anyone who suffers from mental illness. Thats why I spoke up, I dont enjoy this kind of debate one bit. But saying nothing would not be responsible to people who cant read research literature and industry propaganda and understand what it all really means and doesnt mean, or the
50% for whom medical treatment of depression does NOT work, or those
who could be permanently damaged by psychiatric treatment (know anyone
who has gotten tardive dyskinesia from neuroleptics? or someone for whom antidepressants actually triggered bipolar disorder? or someone who has been utterly devastated by the false belief that they had an incurable brain disease?). At any rate, I'm tired of the topic and I sincerely hope the doctor wont reply with some misinformation that I will feel compelled to reply to. In fact I'm putting this thread on ignore mode for a while. I'd rather get back to photography, a great form of therapy.

Jerry Cunningham · Mar 21, 2006

Artists and mental illness

One of the things that I have noted about depression is that there is often a sense of urgency. There is a feeling that one is running out of time and that nothing of value has been accomplished up to the point of depression. This often compels the suffer toward large amounts of productive output. Like a condemned man the world seems clearer and there is so much that needs to be recorded before life runs out. Since I am not a doctor I would guess this is a type of manic behavior. Yet surprisingly high quality work has been produced in such a mental fever. Handel's Messiah is a good example.
Other depressed people seem to lose energy completely. They cannot move, they cannot function, and often cannot find the energy to get out of bed. Depressives in this class are not as productive for obvious reasons.
Of course, there are other mental extremes that have been present in creative people. Love for example. People in love have produced some of the most amazing works in all fields. Indeed, it might be argued that love is the ultimate insanity. Edward Weston seemed to do his best work when enthralled with a woman.
As a sidebar to the discussion. Most people realize that mental illness is real. Most people would agree that drugs can alter the behavior of users. Anyone on street drugs can attest to that. At the present time there is no definitive test of mental illness but that merely shows a current lack of knowledge. There is no definitive test that would show a person in love. Yet we all know that love exists. The brain is very complex, it is little wonder that we have not really begun to plumb its depths.

Mike Lopez · Mar 25, 2006

Outstanding points, Jerry. I recognize both of the traits of depressed people you describe in myself. Some days I feel too lazy to do anything at all. Other times I'll go out and make a dozen or more negatives on a weekend, and then get on such a roll that I'm hauling my 4x5 gear to work with me to head out with during lunch. Thank you for describing and illustrating your observations so well.

And it's too bad that Jerold's critics aren't around to read your notes on love and its lack of definitive proof in the brain.

Photography and depression

jimgalli

Wayne

John Koehrer

Claire Senft

Wayne

Jerry Cunningham

Mike Lopez

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