Photography and depression

[Bill Mitchell]

Times have changed, but psychiatry has changed very little. They are just as full of shit as ever.

Sounds like you could use one.

 

[jeroldharter]

The first thing our psychiatrist does is try to "brand" me as a Scientologist in an ad hominem attack to discredit what I say, while in fact nothing could be futher from the truth. You'll have to do better than that, I've seen it a hundred times.

I'm sure Kay is a wonderful person and I'm sincerely happy that she has found something that helps. But she unfortunately reiterates the same nonsense masqueraded as science that we are all bombarded with in the media everyday. Having good intentions and/or having suffered from depression or other mental illness does not make one immune to the lies that psychiatry perpetrates on the public. If anything it makes a person more susceptible, because they are vulnerable and want to believe so bad.

I was trying to joke around. Sorry for the offense.

Not to hijack the thread, but what are all these lies and nonsense with which you find yourself bombarded?

 

[athanasius80]

I bet that Josef Sudek had episodes of depression. After all, he lost his arm in the Great War.

Henry Rollins once said something to the effect that, "You're never more righteous then right after you're dumped," and I think that depression can be most artistically inspiring. It can also destroy you. But I think Beethoven and Van Gogh would be infinitely less if they were just happy people making happy art.

 

[roteague]

Depression is common. Maybe 1 in 10 to 1 in 15 people experience an episode of major depression in a lifetime. So one would expect the same in artistically minded people. Bipolar disorder, of which depression is a component, is probably over-represented in artistic people.

Interesting observation. As I get older (almost 51) I can see that my life has gone through various periods, some up and some down, particularly when I was around 45. I don't know much about the field of psychiatry, but I am an avid reader and have read a number of books dealing with interpersonal relationships; from what I have read, I don't know how anyone can say the field of psychiatry hasn't changed.

 

[SchwinnParamount]

I happen to be a psychiatrist. Thanks, Wayne, for your vote of confidence. I'll send you a Scientology T-shirt.

Depression is common. Maybe 1 in 10 to 1 in 15 people experience an episode of major depression in a lifetime. So one would expect the same in artistically minded people. Bipolar disorder, of which depression is a component, is probably over-represented in artistic people.

A psychologist, Kay Redfield-Jamison (who happens to have bipolar disorder) has done alot of reading and researh on bipolar disorder. She gives alot of talks on "Creativity and Madness." One book that might be of interest: Dead Link Removed

That's funny.

Seriously, I had a major depression episode which was diagnosed as 'clinical' I was given drugs to pop me out of it. It sorta worked. Turns out my problem was related to the fact that my job changed and I went from 100 hours a week to 40 a week suddenly. After a year+ of no free time, I felt I had too much free time and was feeling guilty about doing nothing with the time.

My photography during that time was interesting. I made a lot of pictures with an 'isolation' theme. My prints were made with low values. Almost all of them were way too heavy. It takes a pretty bright light source to bring out any good detail.

I was looking at several Paul Strand photographs on Saturday night. These photographs are currently on display at the Tacoma Art Museum. They were all heavily printed as well. If I have my dates right, the photographs were made later in his career. I had the impression that they were much like my own... only a hell of a lot better!

I found that rigourous physical exercise (bicycle racing and training) nicely took the place of the anti-depressant drugs I was on. I figure that I was working so hard in my free time that I no longer needed to feel guilty about doing nothing... that and the chemical changes in the brain brought on by the exercise.

My prints today are lively. They are also about 90 percent 'people photographs' Most are sports but some are just pleasant portraits. Oh, and I have no symptoms of depression.

 

[Mike Lopez]

"I wouldn't envy the psychiatrist who had to analyze Gene." - Ed Thompson,
Photo Editor for LIFE magazine (quoted in the video: "W. Eugene Smith: Photography
Made Difficult").

"I said I want that fellow who did that essay about the Spanish village...Ed Thompson, he says to me, 'You want Smith? I'm telling you now, it would be easier just to buy a revolver and shoot yourself.' " Stephan Lorant, who hired Smith to make a dozen photographs of Pittsburgh. Lorant figured it would take two weeks. Smith stayed for months and made over 11,000 photos....Lorant wound up suing Smith, I believe.

Read Russell Miller's book on Magnum, there is a chapter entitled: "The Saga of W. Eugene Smith". He became such a money sink that they eventually parted company.

But what a photographer!

Bill, I just went to the library at lunch and picked that book up. I'll read that chapter tonight; thank you. And Dave, I'll look for those references, as well.

Thanks for (most of) the input so far.

 

[Bill Hahn]

Mike, you're welcome. I find that video about Smith (which contains many interviews with people who knew him well) frightening, inspiring and moving. Many people have called him the "Van Gogh" of photography. Jim Hughes has a biography of Smith, entitled "Shadows and Substance". Smith not only could photograph well, but he could write better than I ever could...

Also see the chapter "The Many Woes of W. Eugene Smith" in John G. Morris' memoir "Get The Picture: A Personal History of Photojournalism". Morris was the poor soul who thought it would be a good idea to have Gene join the Magnum agency.

Enough, I tend to overwhelm people with information....hope you find all this useful.

 

[Curt]

When I had an accident at work and became disabled I had the pleasure to go through the medical system and endure all of the preconceived ideas of what a man should be. At first it was "get over it" and "buck up and be a man". Then I was lucky to find a Neurosurgeon who said I deserved an MRI. I had the MRI and and then had surgery. That's the very very short explaination. I am now, five years later, in need of more surgery. At one point I was concerned with the medications and requested a Psychiatrist's opinion. I went and he said double the antidepressive medications. Don't focus on the pain. I had massage, exercise, accupunture (sp), mental exercises, etc., and more. I got so many different opinions that I was in a bind to decide what was real.

Recently I cut down on the pain medications and ended them and found that I was really in trouble. First I went through physical withdrawal then I had pain like about a 10 out of 10. My wife said now that you know why you are taking the medications go back on them. I went back to a minimum of medications and I am limited by pain and depression again.

I overcame combat in Vietnam, went to college for eight years and became a Radiologic Technologist and a Radiation Therapist. I couldn't work with patients and since I had worked over twenty years in the same field I was put out to pasture. My wife had been an RN since I was in the Service. I'm 54 and have a 17 year old son. I feel more like a grandfather than a father some days.

It's unfortunate that more money isn't put into mental health here in the US. There is no easy answer to depression.

Now my son who is an honor student announced that he wants to be a doctor. Oh my God how would I pay for that? That's depressing, he is starting to volunteer at the hospital and the doctors are supportive.

 

[Christopher Walrath]

I suffer from depression. I have always found that if I get depressed, I will not touch my camera for a couple of weeks but when I am ready to pick it up, I do so with a vengeance. Edward Weston I think had depression, though due to the onset of Parkinson's. Understandably so, I suppose.

 

[jeroldharter]

I found that rigourous physical exercise (bicycle racing and training) nicely took the place of the anti-depressant drugs I was on. I figure that I was working so hard in my free time that I no longer needed to feel guilty about doing nothing... that and the chemical changes in the brain brought on by the exercise.

Some studies show that frequent vigorous exercise can work nearly as well as antidepressants, at least for a short period of time. Of course, if someone has severe depression he is unlikely to have the energy/motivation for so much exercise. Chicken and egg.

 

[Mike Lopez]

Mike, you're welcome. I find that video about Smith (which contains many interviews with people who knew him well) frightening, inspiring and moving. Many people have called him the "Van Gogh" of photography. Jim Hughes has a biography of Smith, entitled "Shadows and Substance". Smith not only could photograph well, but he could write better than I ever could...

Also see the chapter "The Many Woes of W. Eugene Smith" in John G. Morris' memoir "Get The Picture: A Personal History of Photojournalism". Morris was the poor soul who thought it would be a good idea to have Gene join the Magnum agency.

Enough, I tend to overwhelm people with information....hope you find all this useful.

Heh, I grabbed the Hughes biography, too! Thanks for the added info. Not overwhelming at all.

Mike

 

[Bill Hahn]

If you go to amazon.com, look for the (hardcover) book "W. Eugene Smith: Photographs 1934-75", and then look at the user reviews, look for the one labeled "from an old friend", written by David X. Young, who was Smith's neighbor at the loft in New York City. (Young was a poet who invited Jazz musicians to practise at his place - have you seen the Smith photograph of Monk? Smith drilled holes thru the floor boards of Young's apartment, inserted microphones and taped a lot of the sessions of these musicians. There is even an CD created from Smith's record of this music from the loft.)

It was this fond remembrance by Young that really made me investigate W.Eugene Smith....

 

[Kino]

When I had an accident at work and became disabled

(snip)

Curt,

Sounds like you have been through a hell of a lot; wish had some words of wisdom, but I don't. I did see a tv show once about controlling chronic pain with electronic stimulation; ever explore that?

Now my son who is an honor student announced that he wants to be a doctor. Oh my God how would I pay for that? That's depressing, he is starting to volunteer at the hospital and the doctors are supportive.

Used to be communities in the West and in remote locations would sponsor a promising young person through medical school as long as they would sign a contract to practice medicine in that community for a set number of years. Remember the TV show, Northern Exposure? Lame example, I know, but same premise...

Wonder if that is still being practiced?

 

[Bill Hahn]

Curt, et al,

I can offer no advice, but I don't minimize your pain. I've had suicides in my family, enough said.

Re: "controlling chronic pain with electronic stimulation" - I seem to remember Jerry Lewis talking about this to Congress - didn't he have something implanted that he could control with some device (always with the joke about it doubling as a garage door opener)?

 

[jeroldharter]

Now my son who is an honor student announced that he wants to be a doctor. Oh my God how would I pay for that? That's depressing, he is starting to volunteer at the hospital and the doctors are supportive.

Nowadays, if you are smart enough to get into medical school you probably shouldn't. Admission standards are dropping, pay is dropping, regulations are skyrocketing, litigation is sickening... Better to get a JD also and just sue doctors. Not whining, just commenting. A person needs to be committed.

Paying for it should be a non-issue if he completes school/training. Flunking out or bailing out mid-way...that is more of a problem. Interest rates are at an all time low. Go to state schools and take out loans. Do well in school and go to a good residency program. Be reluctant to sign the soul away to a subsidized program.

 

[Curt]

"Some studies show that frequent vigorous exercise can work nearly as well as antidepressants, at least for a short period of time. Of course, if someone has severe depression he is unlikely to have the energy/motivation for so much exercise. Chicken and egg."



Dr. Harter makes a good point. I find that when I do something it's a two fold improvement. I have exercised a part of the body that needs it and the feeling of having done something. The down side is the motivation to continue on a long term basis. You have to deal with all of the personal issues of your life. Wanting to be left alone, suicide, anger, denial, you name it. That's where a good support group is important. I am lucky to have a supportive family that doesn't let me withdraw and keeps me busy. It draws you out if you have something to give also. I can talk A&P and medical experiences with my son. He enjoys photography and I can talk about it all day long. It makes me feel useful to be able to help him with projects at school.

A doctor told him about the rural doctor programs that reduced costs so I guess that is still in effect. We will see, he has a long way to go. I have seen hundreds of residents at the teaching hospital where I worked and I wouldn't wish that on anyone, but thank God that there are some willing to do it.

 

[modafoto]

Times have changed, but psychiatry has changed very little. They are just as full of shit as ever.

...but they surely helped me get back on my feet after a suicide attempt and severe depression...

 

[battra92]

Some studies show that frequent vigorous exercise can work nearly as well as antidepressants, at least for a short period of time. Of course, if someone has severe depression he is unlikely to have the energy/motivation for so much exercise. Chicken and egg.

Exactly, light can do the same with other forms of depression. I'm trying to avoid Prozac as much as possible. ^_^;; Of course my relationship with God doesn't hurt.

 

[Donald Miller]

Times have changed, but psychiatry has changed very little. They are just as full of shit as ever.

I am trying to understand why you would say something like this. Perhaps you would be kind enough to help me to understand. Have you had experience with the psychiatric community? Perhaps a family member or friend has had experience with psychiatrists?

If you would, please provide me a little more background for your assessment.

Thanks.

 

[avandesande]

Actually this is one of the selling points of the c-1.

Some studies show that frequent vigorous exercise can work nearly as well as antidepressants, at least for a short period of time. Of course, if someone has severe depression he is unlikely to have the energy/motivation for so much exercise. Chicken and egg.

 

[Sportera]

I had depression, still taking meds too. All it ever did for me was keep me from making photographs.

 

[Wayne]

I am trying to understand why you would say something like this. Perhaps you would be kind enough to help me to understand. Have you had experience with the psychiatric community? Perhaps a family member or friend has had experience with psychiatrists?

If you would, please provide me a little more background for your assessment.

Thanks.

Because of their complicity in the fraudulent presentation of depression and growing numbers of other mental illnesses as organic disease/disorder.

 

[Donald Miller]

Because of their complicity in the fraudulent presentation of depression and growing numbers of other mental illnesses as organic disease/disorder.

Thanks for responding. But I still wonder on what you are basing this judgement? I know that you must have something factual that this is based on? I really would like to know because I don't understand.

 

[SchwinnParamount]

Because of their complicity in the fraudulent presentation of depression and growing numbers of other mental illnesses as organic disease/disorder.

If depression and other mental illnesses are not organic in nature, how is it that drugs have any effect? Are you thinking they are all placebo in nature?

My own experience is that both drugs and brain chemical changes brought on by exercise had a dramatic effect.

How would you explain the hereditary nature of some of these deseases? And maybe you can explain how a MRI can show differences between 'healthy' brains and those of people with pronounced mental illness?.

 

[Charles Webb]

(snip)

Curt,

Sounds like you have been through a hell of a lot; wish had some words of wisdom, but I don't. I did see a tv show once about controlling chronic pain with electronic stimulation; ever explore that?


I personally have been through many years of the electronic treatments, they are absolutely wonderful during the treatment. Less than two hours later the pain, depression and all you are going through returns full force!
It may be help for some, but an extremely expensive failure in my own case.

Charlie..........................