Photography and cookery

[Roger Hicks]

It's not limited to cooking. Your analogy holds wherever there is a technical underpinning for creative expression.

Dear Bob,

An interesting argument, which well illustrates the shortcomings of analogies. Being neither musical nor a dancer, those would not have occurred to me, and indeed, they are performances rather than products. A meal, a book, a photograph are products, and of course the meal falls flat on its face in the analogy because it cannot be revisited, unlike a book or a picture.

With writing, too, one can revise the existing product, rather than re-making it, as you have to with a print (though not of course the negative).

Thanks very much for broadening my perception of an admittedly simplistic analogy.

Thanks too to the others who have thrown further light on the subject, especially Gordon. One reason I'm not 'getting out more' is that Frances is not well. It will go away, but it takes a long time and it's not much fun. She can't even spend as much time in the darkroom as she would like. It's pseudopolyarthritis rhizomale in French; sorry, dunno in English.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[blansky]

As someone who doesn't cook,(although I have) and is not orgasmic over a great meal (although great meals are....great) I find what makes any meal great is simply the company that you eat it in.

For me, the experience of the meal, with great conversation is the key.

As for the analogy between cooking and photography, and the meal being the deciding factor, I think many people like the process of cooking and the meal being just the outcome. As it is with many people and their photography, the doing, is more important than the result.

I'm not one of them but that's just me.



Michael

 

[Roger Hicks]

I find what makes any meal great is simply the company that you eat it in. Michael

Definitely true -- though being married to Frances I'm well placed there too!

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Sean]

My 2c... Part of what makes me human is enjoying how other humans achieved something artistic by their own hand. We are not just soulless machines that look at an artistic object and say to ourselves, "observing art work, processing data, object meets acceptable parameters, storing in memory, observing next piece". I get a sense of enjoyment looking at something that I know took extreme human effort, craft and skill. I prefer the sculpture of David by Michelangelo vs. someone having a 3D body scan and then precisely carved out of marble using the new computer controlled stone carving machines. The 3D body scan + machine carved sculpture will clinically be more perfect than Michelangelo's but who cares, anyone could do it if they have a 3D body scanner and the new mechanized sculpting tool. I think if we allow ourselves to ignore the process of hand crafted art then we are losing some of our humanity and becoming just like the computers and machines producing everything for us..

 

[Robert Brummitt]

I do about 90-95 percent of the cooking for my family at home. I do think that cooking is much like darkroom work for me. Infact, my daughter has started an interest to be with me in the darkroom but I asked her to join me first in the kitchen. Once she uderstands that weights and measures of cooking and the final results come from careful work. Then she will join me in the darkroom.
One other observation I have had. All artists and all photographers enjoy a good meal, a good bottle of wine or beer, good friends and good conversation.

 

[Flotsam]

Here's a link to a barely related thread that I started last summer.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[anyte]

Absolutely untrue. I will cook a three course meal from basic, fresh ingredients while you microwave a TV dinner. Tell me which end result you prefer.

Not only do fresh ingredients produce more palatable food (IMO) but I quite enjoy the process. Personally I can't stand the taste or texture of foods cooked in a microwave, which is why I don't own one. I've often gotten the comment that they are at least good for reheating food - yeah but an oven and range is good for reheating food too.

Some foods do take longer to prepare but not all home cooked meals require three hours or even a hour. There are also plenty of microwave dishes that require special prep and lots of turning and stirring before it's done. And some of them take much longer than 10 minutes to heat.



My favorite simple recipe is egg dumplings, which I belief is just my families variation on spaetzle.

For myself I use 1/4 cup of flour and one egg. Stir, but do not beat. Drop bits from the end of a butter knife into boiling water. Simmer for about 10 minutes. Top with about a tablespoon of melted butter and a dash (I don't measure this stuff) of milk. Season with salt to taste.

Quick, easy, delicious.


I'd share my recipe for tabouleh but I don't measure anything but the bulgar, olive oil and lemon juice. The rest I do by sight. Such is the way I do most of my cooking. I remember when I couldn't cook without a recipe and now I cook a lot of my own creations off the top of my head, by sight, smell and taste. I've tried measuring so that I can write recipes down but it only mucks up the process and ruins the food.

 

[Colin Graham]

Anyone know how to turn an old 70-210 zoom into a peppermill?

 

[Curt]

Roger I agree, my photography is like my meal portions; miniature.

 

[firecracker]

"The end justifies the means", is what I think sometimes, but not all the time when I'm dealing with photography.

When does "the end" really happen to "justify the means" since (at least some of the) best work is perhaps meant to be archived even after the death of a photographer?

 

[colrehogan]

I let my husband do the cooking when non-microwave cooking is done. Unfortunately, we do eat more microwave meals than we should.

And here I always compared photography to chemistry - guess cooking could be too, but I like doing inorganic chemistry (photography) - never really enjoyed organic chemistry (cooking).

 

[DBP]

Anyone know how to turn an old 70-210 zoom into a peppermill?

No, but there may be a market for a novelty item there. See http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AXPKR/002-7295278-5674468?v=glance&n=3375251 for something similar in another gear obsessed hobby.

 

[leeturner]

There is one more aspect to the cooking/photography analogy and that is taste. My palette will react differently to seasoning and flavours to others tasting the same dish. When I cook I initially try to satisfy my own tastes and hope that others will appreciate and enjoy the food. However there's still the old "too much"/"not enough" argument and some people will just not enjoy the food. In that respect it's not much different than photography.

 

[BWKate]

Roger,

I'm sorry to hear about Frances not feeling well. I hope it doesn't last too long and she is back in the darkroom. I do so enjoy her articles in B&W!
I agree about good food. It is one of the pleasures of life and I remember the result more than the process when I am doing the eating. When I am doing the cooking I remember the process more than the result.

I will never forget the simple pleasure of biting into a freshly steamed dumpling while I was in China this past May! Delicious.

 

[RichSBV]

Maybe I'm just in a contrary mood today as I almost always stay away from such "conversations"... But I get the impression that lately Roger is extremely bored and having fun with the users here...

I don't understand the misunderstanding of Andy's comments? They are true and simply stated...

I also don't understand how so many can feel that photography or cooking or anything else in life depends solely on the finished 'product'?

I can sit for an hour on my shaving horse making a square stick into a round one with no thought at all of what the piece of wood will finally turn into. It's the simple pleasure of shavign the wood that counts...

I can spend hours working with bread dough with absolutely no thought of the final loaf. It make no difference. It's the simple pleasure of working with the dough that counts.

I can spend hours working with my 4x5 or 8x10 with little thought of what the final print will look like. It's the simple pleasure of working with a 70 year old wood camera and the processes surrounding it that entice me. The final print rarely matters...

Many enjoy the journey and care less for where or when they arrive!

 

[Roger Hicks]

Roger,

I'm sorry to hear about Frances not feeling well. I hope it doesn't last too long and she is back in the darkroom.

Thanks. She made 4 prints today (first in a while) but that was as long as she could work. This affliction apparently lasts for months or even a year or two (started in earnest in February) so it's a long haul. She said to thank you for the message.

Cheers,

R

 

[Roger Hicks]

But I get the impression that lately Roger is extremely bored and having fun with the users here...

See the above messages from/to BWKate: we have not been able to travel as much as we normally like, and Frances has had to spend several hours a day just resting.

But there is also a simple disbelief at some of the ways my observations or questions are taken. Good food and good pictures were, as it were, taken for granted. Though I suppose if you make bad food or pictures, no-one cares how you got there either!

Playing with dough and whittling for the sake of it are not things I had considered. Now I have. Thanks.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Lee Shively]

As in the other thread referenced by Flotsam, I'm a down-and-dirty grilling and BBQ fan. I'm not much in the kitchen unless the kitchen is in the backyard or a camp site somewhere. I like to play with fire. It satisfies my primal urges. I guess that's why I like doing black and white photography.

 

[b1ltr1te]

I enjoy cooking as much as I do photography. I spend way more time in the kitchen than in the darkroom (gotta eat).

I learned to cook the same way I learned photography. From a book. I figured to get the best results, I should probably understand the process from beginning to end.

I make many, many mistakes in both my photography and my cooking. But I've noticed that over time both have improved to the point where I make far less mistakes than I used to.

And in the right hands, a TV dinner can be as wonderful as a multi-course gourmet meal.

 

[RAP]

For me, cooking and darkroom do not mix. Fixer and sugar just do not taste the same, especially in coffee. Though one apartment I had the darkroom set up in the kitchen and used an 8' plastic sink over the stove that drained into the kitchen sink. Another place the darkroom was set up in one of the pantrys and I ran water off the laundry hook up in the adjoining pantry.

As far as learning the craft and technique of photography and darkroom, is very much like learning to cook. First learning to boil water, eggs, progressing to souffles, become a master chief.

If you can follow a recipe from a cookbook, you can learn to process film and make good prints. Then as you progress, apply all the variations of technique to produce great prints. Consistency in control of the variables, like temperature and time, but also how to depart from the norm to achieve the desired results.

Personally, I hate to cook, especially for myself. But I think I can whip up a pretty tasty print, no ketchup needed.

 

[derevaun]

My whole point is, if I enjoy the process distinctly less than the outcome, I ought to arrange for someone else to provide the latter and find a more suitable former. In fact, if photography and darkroom were still a necessary drag like they were in my high school yearbook days, I wouldn't bother with them. In that narrow sense, hurray for digital.

Likewise if I were in the predicament that my mother faced in the mid sixties, I wouldn't bother learning the "domestic arts" any more than she did. It's regretable, but I'm glad I have the disposable time and income, and access to her mother's expertise, that have made it fun to cook well at my free discretion.

 

[Donald Miller]

Some folks sure have funny ways of looking at things and weird ideas of what is important.

 

[DBP]

I mentioned this thread to my cousin last night over dinner. He is a former fine art photographer who left the field for better pay back in the 80s. (As I may have mentioned, I come from a family of serious amateurs). He thought it was an interesting and accurate observation.

 

[z3guy]

I have to disagree that how you get to the end is secondary. In both photography and cooking the process can be as important as the finished product. There is a slow food movement where good ingredients are slowly prepared( such as fire roasting peppers) in good company and then enjoyed together. Yes, the end is terrific but getting there is as enjoyable. Likewise for me the process of shooting is a very enjoyable way to spend time and if I get a good negative and print, it is like a glass of port at the end of a meal.
Just my thoughts.

 

[unregistered]

Being the house husband, I hate to cook, although I have to. I can come up with the most creative printing easily, but cooking...bah! I hate it and am so tired of having to do it and come up with something other than the usual weekly fare.

Now, washing dishes...I'm there! That to me is soooo zen. Like printing.