Photographic chemicals and health risks

[Mahler_one]

As a retired MD I have often wondered about the various reports concerning the toxicity of some of the chemicals used in the photographic process. Thus, as many of us know, Pyro is reputed to be very toxic ( absorbed per-cutaneously ). Also, one wonders about the safety of inhaling various powders used by some of our members in the mixing of personal formulations of various agents.

To the current point: Would anyone who uses Platinum, Pallidium, Salt, or any other "alternative" method care to comment about the risks? I am contemplating trying some of these processes, and I wonder how realistic the risks of damaging one's health really are. Thus, has anyone here had, heaven forbid, any personal experience with illnesses caused by chemicals used in the darkroom? Finally, do any here have personal knowledge of anyone who has suffered as a result of chemical toxicity brought about by working with photographic chemicals?

Thanks.

Edwin

 

[copake_ham]

A search of the site would turn up a number of threads on this topic.

 

[Lee L]

Edwin,

Here are a couple of the standard texts on photographic chemical exposure and health risks:

Health Hazards for Photographers
by Siegfried Rempel

Overexposure: Health Hazards in Photography
by Susan Shaw, Monona Rossol

Both are still available from Amazon and others.

Lee

 

[bdial]

You asked about personal experiences, when I was making my living in photography, and in a darkroom almost daily I developed some mild skin sensitivity. Nothing so serious as to require medical attention though. I addressed it by keeping my hands out of chemistry as much as possible, and it cleared up. Now, after a long hiatus, I'm back to doing darkroom work, but the equipment I have now makes it easy to minimize my skin exposure to chemistry, and I've had no problems.
I'm sure my experience is quite minor compared to what some people have experienced, and certainly minor compared to what might be possible.
I don't currently work with any alt processes, but generally speaking for those or silver based work, simple precautions work pretty well. Unlike some other fields, there are plenty of old photographers who have had long exposure to the chemicals. Though admittedly, that observation is not very rigorous.

Barry

 

[pgomena]

A classmate of mine at Brooks Institute of Photography developed a severe allergy to B&W chemicals after about two years of fairly regular exposure. He literally was unable to enter the gang darkrooms without his eyes swelling and mattering profusely. He had to send his film to a lab and printed on a well-ventilated RC machine.

Another classmate had problems with contact dermatitis on his hands. He wore rubber gloves.

I'd say minimizing direct exposure to chemicals and having good darkroom ventilation are good ideas.

Peter Gomena

 

[Antje]

I just need to chime in on the rubber gloves: I'm allergic to rubber myself, that could very well be an allergy to the gloves themselves in this case. I get a weird contact dermatitis and always have to wear cotton undergloves with rubber gloves. That allergy doesn't serve as an excuse for not mopping the floor, I'm afraid...

Antje

 

[Neal]

Hi Antje,

Try nitrile gloves. They aren't much more expensive to use and they should make darkroom work (as well as mopping the floor!) a little nicer.

Neal Wydra

 

[Snapshot]

Although there is a fair amount of toxicity with some photographic chemicals, if you exercise some basic precautions they are not more dangerous than other household chemicals. When handling toxic substances, I use latex or nitrile gloves (depending on the chemical) and if I get some on me, I immediately wash or remove the offending substance. On one occassion, I accidently spilled hydrochloric acid on my hand. I washed the hand with no ill affect, not even redness.

They goal is to exercise some sensibility without be overly cautious to the point of it being a detriment.

 

[DannL]

My uncle on my dad's side of the family died in Aug '81 at the age of 40 from cancer which migrated into his brain. He was a very serious photographer. I recall watching him build portable darkrooms with no consideration for ventilation. I suspect 20 years of B/W and Color chemistry did him in. Nobody on either side of my family is known to have ever died from a cancer, besides him.

What's strange to me . . . I have never known someone that was as health conscious as he. I figure chemistry can be harmful if too much is allowed to enter you body over a long period of time. Even too much table salt is harmful.

 

[Monophoto]

My opinion on this includes two thoughts:

1. The chemicals associated with basic black & white darkroom work are relatively innocuous, and with reasonable precautions, there is no significant risk.

2. The more exotic processes may entail greater risk - pyro, for example. And the fundamental rule here, as in anything else in life, is - if you don't know the safety rules and if your aren't prepared to follow them, don't go there.

The one thing that we need to be very careful of is extrapolating anecdotes into generalities. Coincidence does not guarantee correlation. The fact that someone who happened to be a photographer also happened to have a disease does not mean that photography caused the disease.

As an illustration, there have been several threads on both APUG and other sites that have noted that several famous photographers suffered from Parkinson's Disease (Weston and Bourke-White, for example). But to my knowledge, no one has ever done any creditable scientific research that has concluded that the photographers have a greater incidence of Parkinson's Disease (or any other specific ailment) than the human population in general.

DannL noted that too much table salt is harmful. I suspect that if one did the research, one would conclude that the chemical that results in the most deaths each year is - - - water.

 

[juan]

I tend to be an allergic person - grass, tree pollen, mold, yeast, etc., etc. Since I began mixing my on chemicals, I've used nitrile gloves when using liquids and a paint spray mask made to filer organic vapors when mixing dry chemicals. I have not noticed any health problems from the chemicals at all. While this is anecdotal, I believe that it is good general practice.
juan

 

[Rich Ullsmith]

With the straight-up Dektol, water stop and acid fix, I'm actually more worried when I shake Ajax into the kitchen sink. Vapor pressure is low. Mixing powders, particularly amidol, or with pyro developers as mentioned, then the door is open and the vent is on. Or if there's an aldehyde in a tray.

Cause and effect is difficult to establish in toxicology. Like Louie said about salt: if one were to ingest either elemental sodium or elemental chloride in USRDA amounts, it would be game over. But bind them ionically, and it makes food taste better. Go figure. It's typical to have fear and mistrust about things that are not fully understood.

 

[Erik L]

I have recently become allergic to one or more of the chemicals I use for b/w developing and printing (d76, dektol, Ilfostop, Kodafix) Previously I was a little careless about skin contact with these chemicals while working with no ill effects at all. Now, I have some kind of reaction and I haven't narrowed it down to a specific chemical. A day or two after exposure, when I wash my hands in hot water they itch like mad (it feels so good to scratch at this point) It's funny, they don't itch in cold water or no water, just hot water. Then my skin begins to feel like it has super glue on it, real tough and no elasticity. Then the gross and painful part, my skin starts to peel off revealing raw and tender skin. At this point if I would make a fist and stretch the skin, I would tear the skin and start bleeding. It was a major pain. I wish I knew what chem. I was reacting to so I could perhaps change to another type and renew my carefree ways In any case, cheap latex gloves you can buy by the hundred/box have seemed to solve the problem.
regards
Erik

 

[Dave Miller]

Erik, probably the chemical is Metol, present in many developers, but not all. I suffered in a similar way to that which you describe. I had to change my developing process, and I now try and use developers that do not contain Metol.
By the way, latex gloves are not much use since the pass chemicals, as mentioned above nitrile gloves are much better.

 

[Neanderman]

probably the chemical is Metol, present in many developers

I believe that the concensus now is that it isn't actually the p-(methylamino)phenol sulfate that causes the dermatitus, but rather a common impurity that was found in the chemical in the past. Metol/Elon purchased today from a reputable chemical house should be relatively free of this impurity and is thus less likely to cause contact dermatitus.

Ed

 

[Antje]

I have recently become allergic to one or more of the chemicals I use for b/w developing and printing (d76, dektol, Ilfostop, Kodafix) Previously I was a little careless about skin contact with these chemicals while working with no ill effects at all. Now, I have some kind of reaction and I haven't narrowed it down to a specific chemical. A day or two after exposure, when I wash my hands in hot water they itch like mad (it feels so good to scratch at this point) It's funny, they don't itch in cold water or no water, just hot water. Then my skin begins to feel like it has super glue on it, real tough and no elasticity. Then the gross and painful part, my skin starts to peel off revealing raw and tender skin. At this point if I would make a fist and stretch the skin, I would tear the skin and start bleeding. It was a major pain. I wish I knew what chem. I was reacting to so I could perhaps change to another type and renew my carefree ways In any case, cheap latex gloves you can buy by the hundred/box have seemed to solve the problem.
regards
Erik

What you describe sounds exactly like the reaction I had to rubber (not latex) gloves. That's awful... sorry to heat that.

Antje

 

[Antje]

Hi Antje,

Try nitrile gloves. They aren't much more expensive to use and they should make darkroom work (as well as mopping the floor!) a little nicer.

Neal Wydra

Yeah, I absolutely agree on that, I use the blue nitrile gloves I have grown used to when working in the lab. What held the chemicals there off my skin works in the darkroom, too...

Mopping the floor, however - nothing, absolutely nothing beats good cotton gloves to wear underneath sturdy rubber. No more sweaty hands... that is sheer bliss. If "bliss" can be attributed to mopping the floor.

Wow, did I actually just rave about housecleaning...? Is there a doctor somewhere here? I think I need help.

Antje

 

[DannL]

The one thing that we need to be very careful of is extrapolating anecdotes into generalities. Coincidence does not guarantee correlation. The fact that someone who happened to be a photographer also happened to have a disease does not mean that photography caused the disease.

As you mentioned several times, this is all about risk. The risk of injury. You could look at the risk as 50/50. You either will get cancer, or you won't get cancer. But like the lottery. If you play it, I cannot guarantee you won't get your dollar back, plus some. I have always been in favor of "Better safe than sorry" approach. It appeared to work when I worked on high voltage equipment. What can happen in my darkroom if I take extra safety precautions because of a false assumption? Maybe I'll spend a little extra money needlessly. Or maybe I put forth a little extra effort. All for not. What is the worst thing that "will" happen to me as an individual? :rolleyes:

 

[Photo Engineer]

As a retired MD I have often wondered about the various reports concerning the toxicity of some of the chemicals used in the photographic process. Thus, as many of us know, Pyro is reputed to be very toxic ( absorbed per-cutaneously ). Also, one wonders about the safety of inhaling various powders used by some of our members in the mixing of personal formulations of various agents.

To the current point: Would anyone who uses Platinum, Pallidium, Salt, or any other "alternative" method care to comment about the risks? I am contemplating trying some of these processes, and I wonder how realistic the risks of damaging one's health really are. Thus, has anyone here had, heaven forbid, any personal experience with illnesses caused by chemicals used in the darkroom? Finally, do any here have personal knowledge of anyone who has suffered as a result of chemical toxicity brought about by working with photographic chemicals?

Thanks.

Edwin

Edwin;

After nearly a lifetime in the photographic business from the chemical end, I know of no one at Kodak in any area of work, nor any in any other photo company that has a problem directly related to chemicals.

The usual problems arise, but nothing that can be targeted. And, Kodak ran complete physicals on everyone involved in chemical work every 6 months including extensive blood work and AFAIK turned up nothing. The average incidence of diseases is about the same as elsewhere.

OTOH, we do not use Platinum, Palladium and other heavy metals any more and when we did use Mercury and Selenium, we used draconian measures to insure safety.

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to the symptoms of heavy metal poisoning or problems related to these things.

PE

 

[Erik L]

Erik, probably the chemical is Metol, present in many developers, but not all. I suffered in a similar way to that which you describe. I had to change my developing process, and I now try and use developers that do not contain Metol.
By the way, latex gloves are not much use since the pass chemicals, as mentioned above nitrile gloves are much better.

Thanks for the tip Dave! What developer do you use that doesn't contain metol? I'd be interested to know. I had no idea that latex gloves are useless, guess I'll try the "nitrile" kind

regards,
Erik

 

[Mark Layne]

As a retired MD I have often wondered about the various reports concerning the toxicity of some of the chemicals used in the photographic process. Thus, as many of us know, Pyro is reputed to be very toxic ( absorbed per-cutaneously ). Also, one wonders about the safety of inhaling various powders used by some of our members in the mixing of personal formulations of various agents.

To the current point: Would anyone who uses Platinum, Pallidium, Salt, or any other "alternative" method care to comment about the risks? I am contemplating trying some of these processes, and I wonder how realistic the risks of damaging one's health really are. Thus, has anyone here had, heaven forbid, any personal experience with illnesses caused by chemicals used in the darkroom? Finally, do any here have personal knowledge of anyone who has suffered as a result of chemical toxicity brought about by working with photographic chemicals?

Thanks.

Edwin

Hardly any more so than VOC's, NSAIDS, bleach, fat, sugar etc etc

 

[srs5694]

Thanks for the tip Dave! What developer do you use that doesn't contain metol? I'd be interested to know.

I'm not Dave, so I can't say what he uses specifically, but Kodak XTOL and Agfa Rodinal (and its close relatives) both spring to mind. XTOL is a phenidone/ascorbic acid (PC) developer, and Rodinal uses para-aminophenol. Para-aminophenol is chemically similar to metol, but from what I've read it's not as likely to produce allergic reactions. PC developers are about as medically and environmentally inoffensive as developers can get. I'm not positive, but I believe Ilford DDX is a phenidone/hydroquinone (PQ) developer, which would do as well as XTOL if you're just concerned about a metol allergy. I'm sure there are others, particularly in the PQ category. Some pyro developers use metol in addition to pyrogallol or pyrocatechin, but some may be metol-free. Certainly I've got formulas for a couple such developers, but I don't know offhand if anybody sells them ready-mixed. From a health perspective, though, I don't think switching to a pyro developer is that great a move; almost everything I've read indicates that pyrogallol and pyrocatechin are nastier than metol or hydroquinone.

If you care to mix your own developers from scratch, there are lots of metol-free possibilities. You can usually substitute phenidone for metol, but use 1/10 as much phenidone as the recipe calls for metol. You might not get identical results from your altered developer, but it'll probably at least work. Pat Gainer, Ryuji Suzuki, and others have created some good PC formulas. I've used Gainer's PC-Glycol for a while, with good results, and have recently tried Suzuki's DS-10. I've used Suzuki's DS-14 print developer for quite a while, and it works very well. (An updated version of DS-14 is available commercially as Silvergrain Tektol.)

 

[Mahler_one]

Thanks to all who took the time and effort to respond. And yes, I will search the archives of posts for further information.

Edwin