Photographers you're supposed to like

[mporter012]

I hope this doesn't irritate the masses, but for several years now, I've been hearing about this photo-genius, Ctein. I've spent quite a bit of time on his website trying to get to the bottom of his work and I must say, on a gut level, his photographs don't do much for me. He's also quoted as saying something to the effect that he's one of the greatest printers ever, which is a ridiculous thing to say, even if he was/is. Larry Bird never said, I'm the greatest forward ever," he just played like hell and put up extraordinary numbers. I've read articles of his that are insightful, and I've read post-exposure, and it's great, but his actual images I find to be oddly composed, and that is irritating. I just don't get it. Just sayin'

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

He's written many articles in magazines for years on film, and online, he's a major friend of Michael Johnston's and contributor to Michael's The Online Photographer blog. And he was known as one of the very best at dye transfer printing. Frankly though I share your opinion of his photography. It's nothing too special, unique or creative but it seems he has fun and likes it so that's what's most important.

 

[Wayne]

Ctein is known more for his technical knowledge of the craft of printing than his artistic abilities. I think the qualities of his dye transfer prints probably can't be appreciated on the web, whether you like his compositions or not.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

His latest sale:

http://ctein.com/Ctein_Xmas_Sale.html

And one in particular he's highlighting:

 

[Vonder]

I don't care for Vivian Maier. Some folks don't care for my favorite A. Aubrey Bodine. The universe is full of things you can lump into neat little buckets of "I like that" and "I don't like that". You'll always be able to find kindred spirits who agree with some of the things in both buckets, but you'll never find anyone who accepts your bucket's content as law. It's a diverse world. One person's art is another person's fishwrapper.

It's obvious Ctein isn't the greatest. That was Muhammed Ali.

 

[pdeeh]

Ctein may be a bid of an odd case because I only ever see him cited primarily as a spectacularly good technician rather than image maker. But of course I've never seen one of his DT prints at first hand.

That said, I think it's perfectly possible to understand why someone's work is important or admirable (or both) while also not finding it to one's own taste.

I perfectly "get" that HCB had a great compositional eye and can see how many if not all of his photos work in all sorts of ways ... but I've never been tempted to buy any of his books or linger very long over any of those admirable photos.

On the other hand, I look at any of Salgado's pieces, and I have no idea why he bothered, or why anyone thinks he deserves the extravagant praise that is heaped upon him.

 

[miha]

... A. Aubrey Bodine.

I haven't heard of him before. Thanks!

 

[Gerald C Koch]

He's [Ctein] also quoted as saying something to the effect that he's one of the greatest printers ever

Being a great printer and being a great photographer are two very different things. The very difference between being an artisan and being an artist. Ansel Adams remarked that he would rather see a poor print of a great image than a great print of a poor image. Henri Cartier-Bresson never made his own prints. Or developed his own negatives for that matter. Some poor soul in some lab who never received any credit did it for him. Technical matters were of no interest to him.

 

[spijker]

Henri Cartier-Bresson never made his own prints. Or developed his own negatives for that matter. Some poor soul who never received any credit in a lab did it for him.

The "poor soul", or at least one of them, was Voja Mitrovic and did get some credit. Read Peter Turnley's write up here:
part 1
part 2

 

[MattKing]

Being a great printer and being a great photographer are two different things. The very difference between being an artisan and being an artist. Henri Cartier-Bresson never made his own prints. Or developed his own negatives for that matter. Some poor soul in some lab who never received any credit did it for him.

I'm going to disagree slightly.

A great printer is akin to a great performer.

You can be extremely proficient technically, but unless you have some artistic sensibility, your prints aren't likely to be "great".

 

[Vonder]

I'm going to disagree slightly.

A great printer is akin to a great performer.

You can be extremely proficient technically, but unless you have some artistic sensibility, your prints aren't likely to be "great".

Totally agree, but likewise, if you can't print worth a damn, even great work languishes in the garbage bin.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have a Ctein DT print. It is truly a beautiful photo and print both.

We have argued the merits of viewing images on a monitor vs seeing them in-hand, and I have to say this is true for most images. Holding just about any DT in hand is a revelation of what this art/craft can produce.

I also have several other DT prints including a Jim Browning print, and the same holds true there.

PE

 

[cliveh]

Well I can think of quite a few famous photographers who I fail to appreciate. However a photographer who can capture a moment in time within a good composition I can appreciate. The development and printing is merely a technical skill that can be done at leisure by any competent technician. Give an Infinite number of monkeys infinite time to print a negative from a mediocre image and it will always remain mediocre. Give fewer monkeys less time to print a negative from a decisive moment in time with good composition and you will get a better image.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Clive, development and printing is not merely a technical skill. What about choosing the correct crop, paper, size and of course there is dodging, burning and split grade printing. My my, bite your tongue and back up on this.

PE

 

[pdeeh]

As a monkey, I'm certainly hoping for some tips

 

[cliveh]

You conveniently left out the scenario in which given infinite time the infinite number of monkeys will also make HCB's pictures, and print them better.

They may print them better, but unless they have a time machine they can't remake the original negative.

 

[Will S]

I agree with PhotoEngineer - I have two of Ctein's dye transfer and a few inkjets as well that are beautiful. Ctein's book, Post Exposure, has a lot of examples in it for which I'd like to see the prints. If you aren't stimulated by the work it's no big deal. But, as they say, all publicity is good publicity.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I think the qualities of his dye transfer prints probably can't be appreciated on the web, whether you like his compositions or not.

True. I own one of his dye transfer prints and it's a beautiful physical thing to behold. I'm surprised he never took up colour carbon transfer printing after he recently gave up dye transfer printing...

 

[Bill Burk]

On the other hand, I look at any of Salgado's pieces, and I have no idea why he bothered, or why anyone thinks he deserves the extravagant praise that is heaped upon him.

pdeeh,

Salgado has the exact opposite effect on me. Seeing his photographs makes me wonder why "I" bother, because I can't even come close.

I see that he treats light with a special sensitivity. I wish I could do that.

 

[eddie]

I've never thought we're "supposed to like" any photographers. I do think we need to understand, and appreciate, the place many photographers have in the pantheon of photographic history. This is whether, or not, we like their work.

 

[Bill Burk]

Well of course I am supposed to like Ansel Adams and hate William Mortensen..... But I can't help liking both of them.

I even like Peter Lik. That is a pretty cool slot canyon photograph. I wouldn't do well as a critic.

 

[lxdude]

I agree with the OP that Ctein's declarations about himself are off-putting. But maybe I'm just Ctankerous.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Living near GEH, I get to see the shows and a cross section of just about all "greats".

All I can do is try to move up. At the rate I am going, I guess emulsion making is going to have to be my forte.

PE

 

[Arklatexian]

I haven't heard of him before. Thanks!

(A. Aubry Bodine)

How sad. Bodine was one of the best printers whose prints I ever had the good fortune to view. We used to put on an International Photo Salon and he always entered pictures while he was still alive and when his package of prints arrived, the salon workers would take a little time out just to admire them. As to being disappointed in prints from well known photographers, I had the same problem with Fred Picker's work. But I received much useful information on how to develop and print film from his books and VCRs......Regards

 

[mporter012]

Thanks for all the comments, as usual. It would be interesting to move this conversation on to music... Sigh. Who else hates the Beatles? (Joking, obviously.)