Photographers you're supposed to like

mporter012 · Dec 10, 2014

I hope this doesn't irritate the masses, but for several years now, I've been hearing about this photo-genius, Ctein. I've spent quite a bit of time on his website trying to get to the bottom of his work and I must say, on a gut level, his photographs don't do much for me. He's also quoted as saying something to the effect that he's one of the greatest printers ever, which is a ridiculous thing to say, even if he was/is. Larry Bird never said, I'm the greatest forward ever," he just played like hell and put up extraordinary numbers. I've read articles of his that are insightful, and I've read post-exposure, and it's great, but his actual images I find to be oddly composed, and that is irritating. I just don't get it. Just sayin'

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 10, 2014

He's written many articles in magazines for years on film, and online, he's a major friend of Michael Johnston's and contributor to Michael's The Online Photographer blog. And he was known as one of the very best at dye transfer printing. Frankly though I share your opinion of his photography. It's nothing too special, unique or creative but it seems he has fun and likes it so that's what's most important.

Wayne · Dec 11, 2014

Ctein is known more for his technical knowledge of the craft of printing than his artistic abilities. I think the qualities of his dye transfer prints probably can't be appreciated on the web, whether you like his compositions or not.

Richard S. (rich815) · Dec 11, 2014

His latest sale:

http://ctein.com/Ctein_Xmas_Sale.html

And one in particular he's highlighting:

Vonder · Dec 11, 2014

I don't care for Vivian Maier. Some folks don't care for my favorite A. Aubrey Bodine. The universe is full of things you can lump into neat little buckets of "I like that" and "I don't like that". You'll always be able to find kindred spirits who agree with some of the things in both buckets, but you'll never find anyone who accepts your bucket's content as law. It's a diverse world. One person's art is another person's fishwrapper.

It's obvious Ctein isn't the greatest. That was Muhammed Ali.

pdeeh · Dec 11, 2014

Ctein may be a bid of an odd case because I only ever see him cited primarily as a spectacularly good technician rather than image maker. But of course I've never seen one of his DT prints at first hand.

That said, I think it's perfectly possible to understand why someone's work is important or admirable (or both) while also not finding it to one's own taste.

I perfectly "get" that HCB had a great compositional eye and can see how many if not all of his photos work in all sorts of ways ... but I've never been tempted to buy any of his books or linger very long over any of those admirable photos.

On the other hand, I look at any of Salgado's pieces, and I have no idea why he bothered, or why anyone thinks he deserves the extravagant praise that is heaped upon him.

miha · Dec 11, 2014

... A. Aubrey Bodine.

I haven't heard of him before. Thanks!

Gerald C Koch · Dec 11, 2014

He's [Ctein] also quoted as saying something to the effect that he's one of the greatest printers ever

Being a great printer and being a great photographer are two very different things. The very difference between being an artisan and being an artist. Ansel Adams remarked that he would rather see a poor print of a great image than a great print of a poor image. Henri Cartier-Bresson never made his own prints. Or developed his own negatives for that matter. Some poor soul in some lab who never received any credit did it for him. Technical matters were of no interest to him.

spijker · Dec 11, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
Henri Cartier-Bresson never made his own prints. Or developed his own negatives for that matter. Some poor soul who never received any credit in a lab did it for him.

The "poor soul", or at least one of them, was Voja Mitrovic and did get some credit. Read Peter Turnley's write up here:
part 1
part 2

MattKing · Dec 11, 2014

Gerald C Koch said:
Being a great printer and being a great photographer are two different things. The very difference between being an artisan and being an artist. Henri Cartier-Bresson never made his own prints. Or developed his own negatives for that matter. Some poor soul in some lab who never received any credit did it for him.

I'm going to disagree slightly.

A great printer is akin to a great performer.

You can be extremely proficient technically, but unless you have some artistic sensibility, your prints aren't likely to be "great".

Vonder · Dec 11, 2014

MattKing said:
I'm going to disagree slightly.

A great printer is akin to a great performer.

You can be extremely proficient technically, but unless you have some artistic sensibility, your prints aren't likely to be "great".

Totally agree, but likewise, if you can't print worth a damn, even great work languishes in the garbage bin.

Photo Engineer · Dec 11, 2014

I have a Ctein DT print. It is truly a beautiful photo and print both.

We have argued the merits of viewing images on a monitor vs seeing them in-hand, and I have to say this is true for most images. Holding just about any DT in hand is a revelation of what this art/craft can produce.

I also have several other DT prints including a Jim Browning print, and the same holds true there.

PE

cliveh · Dec 11, 2014

Well I can think of quite a few famous photographers who I fail to appreciate. However a photographer who can capture a moment in time within a good composition I can appreciate. The development and printing is merely a technical skill that can be done at leisure by any competent technician. Give an Infinite number of monkeys infinite time to print a negative from a mediocre image and it will always remain mediocre. Give fewer monkeys less time to print a negative from a decisive moment in time with good composition and you will get a better image.

Photo Engineer · Dec 11, 2014

Clive, development and printing is not merely a technical skill. What about choosing the correct crop, paper, size and of course there is dodging, burning and split grade printing. My my, bite your tongue and back up on this.

PE

pdeeh · Dec 11, 2014

As a monkey, I'm certainly hoping for some tips

cliveh · Dec 11, 2014

Michael R 1974 said:
You conveniently left out the scenario in which given infinite time the infinite number of monkeys will also make HCB's pictures, and print them better.

They may print them better, but unless they have a time machine they can't remake the original negative.

Will S · Dec 11, 2014

I agree with PhotoEngineer - I have two of Ctein's dye transfer and a few inkjets as well that are beautiful. Ctein's book, Post Exposure, has a lot of examples in it for which I'd like to see the prints. If you aren't stimulated by the work it's no big deal. But, as they say, all publicity is good publicity.

Andrew O'Neill · Dec 11, 2014

I think the qualities of his dye transfer prints probably can't be appreciated on the web, whether you like his compositions or not.

True. I own one of his dye transfer prints and it's a beautiful physical thing to behold. I'm surprised he never took up colour carbon transfer printing after he recently gave up dye transfer printing...

Bill Burk · Dec 11, 2014

pdeeh said:
On the other hand, I look at any of Salgado's pieces, and I have no idea why he bothered, or why anyone thinks he deserves the extravagant praise that is heaped upon him.

pdeeh,

Salgado has the exact opposite effect on me. Seeing his photographs makes me wonder why "I" bother, because I can't even come close.

I see that he treats light with a special sensitivity. I wish I could do that.

eddie · Dec 11, 2014

I've never thought we're "supposed to like" any photographers. I do think we need to understand, and appreciate, the place many photographers have in the pantheon of photographic history. This is whether, or not, we like their work.

Bill Burk · Dec 11, 2014

Well of course I am supposed to like Ansel Adams and hate William Mortensen..... But I can't help liking both of them.

I even like Peter Lik. That is a pretty cool slot canyon photograph. I wouldn't do well as a critic.

lxdude · Dec 11, 2014

I agree with the OP that Ctein's declarations about himself are off-putting. But maybe I'm just Ctankerous.

Photo Engineer · Dec 11, 2014

Living near GEH, I get to see the shows and a cross section of just about all "greats".

All I can do is try to move up. At the rate I am going, I guess emulsion making is going to have to be my forte.

PE

Arklatexian · Dec 12, 2014

miha said:
I haven't heard of him before. Thanks!

(A. Aubry Bodine)

How sad. Bodine was one of the best printers whose prints I ever had the good fortune to view. We used to put on an International Photo Salon and he always entered pictures while he was still alive and when his package of prints arrived, the salon workers would take a little time out just to admire them. As to being disappointed in prints from well known photographers, I had the same problem with Fred Picker's work. But I received much useful information on how to develop and print film from his books and VCRs......Regards

mporter012 · Dec 12, 2014

Thanks for all the comments, as usual. It would be interesting to move this conversation on to music... Sigh. Who else hates the Beatles? (Joking, obviously.)

Photographers you're supposed to like

mporter012

Richard S. (rich815)

Wayne

Richard S. (rich815)

Vonder

pdeeh

miha

Gerald C Koch

spijker

MattKing

Moderator

Vonder

Photo Engineer

cliveh

Photo Engineer

pdeeh

cliveh

Will S

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

Bill Burk

eddie

Bill Burk

lxdude

Photo Engineer

Arklatexian

mporter012

Photographers you're supposed to like

Moderator

Moderator

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